How do I Prevent Yeast Autolysis?

I have had some problems with this in the past, especially with the pale ales in which it is easier to taste that yeast bit. How do I prevent this.  Should I get the beer off the yeast ASAP. I ususally let it sit in the primary for 14 days. 
If I secondary with a keg (which I ususally do) should I let it sit for a couple days to get the yeast to fall out of suspension and then get rid of the yeast sitting at the bottom?
Thanks,

If you're pitching an appropriate amount of healthy yeast 14 days shouldn't be an issue at all.  Check out the pitching rate calculator at mrmalty.com.

If you're going to wait for the yeast to drop out I would do it in the primary vessel and then rack to a keg.  If you have the ability to cold crash the fermenter this will aid in the process of clearing up the beer.

Are you seeing a lot of yeast at the bottom of your empty kegs?

I am not seeing alot at the bottom of the kegs.  If I am going off of MrMalty pitching rate, I would say I am at or just below pitching recommendations.
Would underpitching cause the yeast bite?

Unless you're substantially underpitching, I don't think this would be a huge problem.

I think you can get some off flavors from yeast that are not related to autolysis.  I believe that yeast are going to capture some of the hop bitterness.  This may not be the most pleasant flavor.  So, you could be getting some off flavors that really aren't from autolysis.

Have you looked at your water composition?  If your Chloride to Sulfate ratio leans heavily toward Sulfate that could be accentuating some of the bitterness that you are perceiving.  Check out John Palmer's excellent Residual Alkalinity spreadsheet. 

This is only going to be helpful if you're brewing all grain.  It could still be an issue with extract, but there isn't much you can do about it.  If you are doing extract, I'd try to brew the same recipe using only distilled water to see if the water is contributing to the off flavor.

I dump the yeast cake within a short period of  when the primary ferment is over.
2 weeks is  stretching it, I should think. 
Many yeasts are so fast that they can do their thing in a very short period; as little as a a day sometimes,  but more often  taking about a week.
Rack off or dump when the aggressive activity is over, the bubbling foaming, is stopped,  and the yeast has settled. If this takes longer than a week you have a very slow yeast.

Some people like autolysis in their beer, I think it sucks.

In my opinion-
Moving beers to a secondary vessel is uneeded.  Not only is it, generally, unhelpful it can hurt the beer. 

Using a secondary vessel is a throwback to a time when people pitched low amounts of yeast that was of questionable quality and health.  In such situations autolysis is a risk and secondary aging can condition out some of the off flavors of a poor fermentation.

With healthy yeast, beer can sit in the primary vessel for weeks (some would say months) with no risk of autolysis.

There are some good reasons to use a secondary vessel.  I'm thinking of fruit, souring and bulk aging of big beers.

This position is backed up by current brewing knowledge, experts and authors who have more experience than I do and side by side trials.

This is MY opinion.

If you've looked, read and listened to the same information I have (or not) and want to hold a different opinion, that's great.  Don't take my post to mean that I want to debate this.  I do not.  If you love to secondary everything and think it's great for your beer, that's great, I respect that.

forget the secondary. Latest testing show that leaving beer on the yeast cake does no harm. I generally leave all beers in the primary two weeks. As stated before, more time on primary is good and the secondary is really only needed for fruit and adjuncts.

So if a beer calls for dry hopping, do you do 2 weeks in primary and then add hops for a week, for 3 weeks total?

You can do the two concurrently.  It's conditioning/clearing up at the same time you're dry hopping.  So, in this example, I would dry hop after a week, let it sit another week and then rack it.

dabeer said:

So if a beer calls for dry hopping, do you do 2 weeks in primary and then add hops for a week, for 3 weeks total?

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This is the way I do it. If you dry hop while it is actively fermenting the bubbles will scrub off the volatile's and essence of the hops. You are trying to capture the easily lost volatils. You should let your beer drive off the unfavorable gases for two weeks than add your dry hops to the primary. Let it stand for a week and then (keg) bottle.

stadelman said:

In my opinion-
Moving beers to a secondary vessel is uneeded.  Not only is it, generally, unhelpful it can hurt the beer.  

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Not in my experience.  To harm the beer you gotta really beat the hell out of it and introduce some O2 that is way far beyond the itty bitty pifling amount that may transpire across  the surface during that brief period  when one racks off the  cake.

But this is my opinion and I will not tolerate anyone trying to debate me.
<<<<<<doesn't that sound absolutely silly?>>>>>>>>>>>

Using a secondary vessel is a throwback to a time when people pitched low amounts of yeast that was of questionable quality and health.  In such situations autolysis is a risk and secondary aging can condition out some of the off flavors of a poor fermentation.

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says who?  

With healthy yeast, beer can sit in the primary vessel for weeks (some would say months) with no risk of autolysis.

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some would say? Who is this "some" that would say this?
Which assertion is contradicted by other current work that has led to a resurgence on one tank brewing because as the proponents state  they like the flavor of autolysis.

I've read some material on one tank brewing as compared to multiple tanks with a transfer off the cake.  
I can't say it was definitive or even terribly well done from a research perspective.   As a lot, I found the material to be "interesting" at best and certainly not dispositive of anything at all.  

This position is backed up by current brewing knowledge, experts and authors who have more experience than I do and side by side trials.

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 What current knowledge and who are the proponents and what are their criteria and methods?  

If you've looked, read and listened to the same information I have (or not) and want to hold a different opinion, that's great.  Don't take my post to mean that I want to debate this.  I do not.  If you love to secondary everything and think it's great for your beer, that's great, I respect that.

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That's OK I ain't tolerating debate either.  I am  so far above everybody else  on the planet that  I don't have the time or patience to examine their pifling trivial  opinions.   I have already connected to the hot-line of cosmic truth and reality and I need no other input.
Puhleeease

It's funny to me that you take issue with the fact that I don't want to debate about this topic.  It's like you feel like you have a bunch of great points and you're mad that I don't want to fight about it.

I've talked about this subject ad nauseam,  I've come to realize that this is a hot button topic that can lead quickly lead to arguments that are unhelpful.  I've been guilty of escalating discussions myself.

I don't want to debate about it not because I don't believe I have the facts on my side or because I'm not up for a good debate or because I think I'm better than anyone.  I don't want to debate it because people on both sides of the issue have strong emotions that can degrade a conversation quickly.

stadelman said:

It's funny to me that you take issue with the fact that I don't want to debate about this topic.  It's like you feel like you have a bunch of great points and you're mad that I don't want to fight about it.

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No nothing like that.  It  is the imperious I know everything tone you manifested.
Really silly and pompous.

Funny ..... I didn't get that.

88Q said:

Funny ..... I didn't get that.

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I've read people wrong before.
but~ ~ ~ ~ ~

CR said:

No nothing like that.  It  is the imperious I know everything tone you manifested.
Really silly and pompous.

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Your reaction proves my point.  You attacked me because I gave my opinion, prefaced it as such, said I respected anyone's right to disagree and said I didn't want to fight about it.

back to the topic. I have heard some folks leaving beer in the primary for several months without a problem.

I left a dopplebock in the primary for six weeks before getting to bottle it. People still talk about that batch as one of their favorites. I think the fear of Autolysis is overrated and hyped-up.

I also know guys who have been brewing beers and winning awards for 20+ years and rarely, if ever, using a secondary. I can't validate any argument against their experience and testimonies.

Still... I say: "To each his own" for those that think Autolysis is a reason for racking ASAP. There is 8 million ways to skin a cat. RDWHAHB

Wow guys I love the passion and input.... AWSOME!

Your reaction proves my point. 

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Maybe in your imagination

You attacked me

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You were definitely not attacked.

because I gave my opinion, prefaced it as such, said I respected anyone's right to disagree and said I didn't want to fight about it.

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Whose fighting?
I just thought you sounded snooty and imperious. Now I think you are just playing games.

Hmmm,  Frequent reader, in frequent poster here.  Just a couple of observations. 

I would suspect that what you are experiencing are off flavors as a result of your fermentation practices and not autolysis.  With ales, if you want to a cleaner taste minimize off flavors by fermenting to the cooler end of the recommended rage for the yeast you are using.  If you want more of the esters, be it fruity or spicy, go warmer.  IMO, Controlling your fermentation temp is a key to consistency in your home brew. 

On another note, we are reading each others words, not hearing and/or seeing them post.  Trying to decipher someones tone from their written word is notoriously difficult.  We all need to keep that in mind and not flame someone for stating an opinion that they clearly indicate is their opinion.

Cheers!