Partial Mash Calculation Question

  I am new to BeerSmith software. I usually do a partial mash. In the past my mash method has usually yielded an efficiency in the low 60's. I understand this is what I would enter in the brew house efficiency tab. But this number only applies to my mashed grains-usually about 5 lbs. Most of my fermentables  come from extract, which would of course be subject to a very high efficiency number. Does BeerSmith  automatically take this difference into account when it performs its calculations, or are there other steps I have to take to get proper calculations. Any info would be greatly appreciated.Thanks.

As long as you select Type as Partial Mash, you're good.

So how does Beersmith know which grains are mashed and which were only steeped?  Or does that not make any difference?

This batch I am making now is my first attempt at partial mash and only then because I found out I shouldn't steep my Munich Malt with my Chocolate and Caramalt Light Crystal malts.

All help is of course appreciated.

The grain profile for each grain has the data on whether a grain is "must mash" or not.  Generally, all crystals are steep only, b/c their starches were saccharified? in the kernals during malting process.  Whatever sugar they contribute need only be rinsed out:  mashing does nothing with crystals. 

The difference is determined by the malting, drying and kilning schedule for each grain.  So if you choose some "must mash" grains, and then choose "Extract" as the Type, BSmith won't assume any mash conversion of those grains.  But, even if one steeps those mash grains (Munich, Vienna, etc.) at 170F and kills off any hope of conversion, one would still get some fresh grain/malt flavor and aroma, so all is not lost. 

And any extract brewer could do partial mash by "steeping" at 155F for 20-30 minutes...great way to improve extract brewing with malty freshness. 

I think that I am following your logic but I guess I am not sure of the difference between mashing and steeping.
I put together a couple of test batches using the same grains and extracts with the only difference being the brew type being set at extract or partial and here is what i get.

Set for extract:
extract only; OG=1.060
extract + crystal; OG=1.062
extract + Must mash grain OG=1.062
extract + crystal + Must mash grain; OG=1.064

Set for Partial Mash:
extract only; OG=1.060
extract + crystal; OG=1.070
extract + Must mash grain OG=1.072
extract + crystal + Must mash grain; OG=1.082

Jims New Brew said:

......... the difference between mashing and steeping.

Click to expand...

For short durations and small quantities of grain like this, in my opinion, the difference is the temperature.

If you soak some mashable grains for 30 mins at 155F, then you will convert some starches to sugars.

Same grains, at 170F or higher, and I believe you'd get some malt flavor/aroma to help an extract kit, but not much conversion of sugars. 

One of the biggest improvements in quality an extract/kit brewer can achieve (IMO) is mashing 2# of fresh grains.  If one uses 0.5 to 1.0 lbs of suitable pale/pils/munich/vienna for enzymes, now the extract brewer can use ANY must-mash grain including those that need extra enzymes (aromatic, bisquit, amber, brown, etc.)  The fresh malt helps the beer, and the process opens up every possible grain choice. 

Set for extract:
extract only; OG=1.060
extract + crystal; OG=1.062 [slight increase from "rinsing" sugars from kernals - not converted]
extract + Must mash grain OG=1.062 [?]
extract + crystal + Must mash grain; OG=1.064

Set for Partial Mash:
extract only; OG=1.060
extract + crystal; OG=1.070 [unsure why it's 8 pts higher than extract? time/temp math in BSmith?]
extract + Must mash grain OG=1.072 [slight inc from mashing]
extract + crystal + Must mash grain; OG=1.082 [an extra 10 pts?  not a typo?]


The quantities and grains would matter here.  All these numbers are guesses, impacted by the EE% setting.  When I started doing partial I assumed much too high a EE% and undershot many batches.  I gradually learned it was around 53% or so.  To me, the benefit of this technique is more the flavor/aroma gains while maintaining the simpler/faster extract process, and less about getting much OG from the effort.

MaltLicker, (Love your handle, brings up all kind of thoughts)

Thanks for your help in understanding this stuff.

In my test examples, I think I pretty much understand the results. With the extract setting with steeped  specialty grains, I would expect a bump from the soaked out sugars. Using a must mash grain in an extract batch I would not expect much of a bump because Beersmith is assuming no mash so little if anything comes from the use of the grain. With the crystal and mashing grain, they just add. As for the partial mash setting, I think your note is spot on. Beersmith is assuming a mashing schedule of time and temp so more of the available sugars would be extracted from the crystal. That is not a typo on the crystal plus must mash. If you add the 10 point bump from the crystal and the 12 point bump from the must mash to the extracts 60, you get 1.082.

Here is my feeble minds take on the difference between mashing and steeping:
It seems to me that the only significant difference between mashing and steeping is the grain that is used. Granted the times, temperatures and methods vary but basically you are soaking grain in hot water at a controlled temperature for a controlled time. The differences are that in steeping you are using Specialty grains that by a heating process, have already had the starches converted to sugar and are only extracting that sugar while in mashing, you have to convert the starch to sugar and then extract the sugar. Am I on the right track?

My issue with setting up a recipe in BS using speciality grains is that I cannot determine the time and temp of the "steep". I usually steep at 165 for 20 mins for most extract recipes I make. I would like to be able to have the time/temp specified on my brewsheets I print in case somebody wants to brew it as well.

Anybody else have this issue?

Enter Type as Partial Mash, which would enable the Mash Schedules dialog?