Author Topic: Missing OG....badly  (Read 5760 times)

Offline chubba27

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Missing OG....badly
« on: July 31, 2011, 10:26:40 PM »
Extract brewer moving to steeping grains and doing a full boil...

Original recipe is steeping 8oz of grain in .5gallons of water and sparging with .5 gallons of water.  Add 7.25# of DME and water for a 2.5 gallon boil which is then cooled and then topped up to 5 gallons for the fermenter.  First time I made it, I followed the recipe exactly and OG was almost dead on at just over 1.060.  Ok, so now I try to redo the recipe only using a boil of 4.5 gallons.  I do the same steeping process, then add water to get to 4.5 gallons and add 8# of DME.  In my mind, and in BeerSmith, I should be around the correct OG.  Pre-boil OG was estimated at 1.092.  I hit 1.072.  The post-boil OG was 20 points low too.  This is the 2nd time this has happened.  Am I missing something obvious?

Please let me know if you need any more info.  I just can't figure it out.


Offline DaveinPa

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 04:45:07 PM »
What was the grain you used/how much and what temps did you steep at and for how long?  Also, are you adjusting gravity for temperature?  It makes a fairly big difference.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 06:04:32 PM »
Depending on the brand of DME, the extra 0.75# might be worth 5-6 pts, and the half-gallon less water is 10% less volume, but I'm not sure that is worth a 10% bump in SG, but let's say so for another 6 pts.  The original 1.060 plus 6 plus 6 would be the 1.072 that you got.  

From my experience brewing AG in the kitchen, it's really hard to gets PPG by sparging small amounts of grain, so I would ignore much boost from 8 oz.  BeerSmith is ignoring it b/c you have Extract selected as the Type.  Need to switch that to Partial Mash so BSmith will credit you the mashing. 

I would point the finger at the pre-boil SG of 1.092, b/c if that is truly a pre-boil number, and you boiled for 60 mins, you'd expect to gain 8-9 pts perhaps, for around 1.100.  

EDIT - some equipment settings do not seem to match your description.  And if you can, I'd recommend trying to boil more of the liquid if possible.  Once you get past the hot break, you should be able to boil 4 gallons reasonably well without boiling over. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 06:16:19 PM by MaltLicker »

Offline chubba27

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 07:49:30 AM »
What was the grain you used/how much and what temps did you steep at and for how long?  Also, are you adjusting gravity for temperature?  It makes a fairly big difference.
The grain was just 4oz. Amber and 4oz. Crystal-60 for 30 minutes at 152F in 1/2 gallon of water.  "Sparged" with 1/2 gallon at 170F.  Seems to be more for a little color/flavor than any true contribution to the gravity.
Yes, the actual gravity was 1.066 @ 100F = 1.072 (using the hydrometer tool in BS.)

Offline chubba27

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 08:00:53 AM »
EDIT - some equipment settings do not seem to match your description.  And if you can, I'd recommend trying to boil more of the liquid if possible.  Once you get past the hot break, you should be able to boil 4 gallons reasonably well without boiling over. 
Probably mad it confusing by mentioning two recipe versions.  The original recipe called for a 2.5g boil.  Put the wort in the fermenter and then top up to 5.0g.

I've finally gotten a bigger pot, so I was trying to increase the boil size.  I set up my equipment profile as best I could.  The process is:
Steep grains in 1/2g
Sparge with 1/2g
Add water to 4.4g mark
Add 8# of DME
Took gravity reading (BS said it should be 1.092, but I only got 1.072)
Boil
Put in fermenter and top up to 6.5g

I just don't understand the 1.072.  I'm not relying on a lot of grains for PPG and it was fresh DME, so I can't think of a problem there.  I must have something configured incorrectly which is screwing up calculations, but I don't know what.  It's happened on two batches now, both brewed since I started playing with my equipment profile.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 08:53:35 AM »
I did misread the 4.5 gals as batch and not boil size. 

Offline DaveinPa

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 04:51:09 PM »
DME has 44 points/gallon/lb. 8lb * 44 / 4.5gal = 78 or a 1.078 gravity.  Your specialty grains will contribute a little, but not much.  I confirmed in BS - got 1.082 using your recipe.  I don't know how you got 1.092 out of BS.

Does your hydrometer read 1.0 in water at the calibrated temp?  Are your volumes acurate?  Weight of extract added?  1.072 is low for just the straight extract portion.

Offline chubba27

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 08:33:48 PM »
I confirmed in BS - got 1.082 using your recipe.  I don't know how you got 1.092 out of BS.
Not sure what to tell you.  You can see in the recipe I attached that the Est pre-boil Gravity is 1.092.  Honestly, I've never calibrated the hydrometer, although I haven't had issues with the gravity before setting up my equipment.

Mostly, I just think I've screwed up or misunderstood the equipment profile and was wondering if anyone could spot something obvious.

Offline 88Q

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 08:35:27 AM »
I think at this point we need to see a screen clip of your equipment profile. I suspect the problem is in there also, but can't see it in the attached recipe.
88Q

Offline chubba27

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 08:41:18 AM »
See attached...

Offline 88Q

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Re: Missing OG....badly
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 06:22:11 PM »
Sorry I did not see the earlier image of your equipment profile.... nor realize that I could get it from your recipe either.

Anyway,  what I think you have uncovered is an bug/error (sorry if I am wrong Brad ... sorrier if I am correct). In your equipment profile .... Try making the FERMENTER  TOP OFF WATER to 1 gal (which is what I think you wanted anyway for a 5.5 gal batch size ((not 6.5 as mentioned earlier)) .... notice that it changed the estimated PRE-BOIL GRAVITY to 1062.... right where it oughta be. But there is NO REASON that I see that top off water into the FERMENTER should effect the PRE BOIL gravity. So, unless that is corrected by someone else here, I think that is where the error is.

I did not search to see if this is one of the known issues Brad is working on or not, it may be.
88Q

 

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