Multi-Stage or "Layered" Brewing

[DonS]

I'll try to be clearer than I was in my previous mis-placed thread.  I am going to brew a Belgian.  This will be a first
for me.  Unlike anything I have done before, it has 3 stages, or phases, or "layers" (as they are called in the recipe).

As a quick overview, the first "stage" is a mash and boil with grain, extract and hops.  Then the result is fermented for a certain
time period.  THEN, you do another stage that is a boil with honey, herbs and hops. When that boil is done, you siphon the
results of the previous stage on top of this and ferment again.  THEN you do another stage that is a boil of some extract, spices
and hops.  At the end of that boil, you siphon the previous wort on top of this.  They you ferment and bottle.

My question is that I can't seem to figure out how to reflect this in the BeerSmith software.  I'm probably missing something easy. 

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Don

[DaveinPa]

I would do this as 3 separate recipes.   That way each step can have a different brew type (all grain, extract, partial mash).  At the end of each stage, add the results of the previous stage(s).

[DonS]

Well, I understand how you could get, for example, the expected OG, FG, ABV for each stage.  But to get the stats of the final product is not as simple as adding them together, or even weighting them.  Taking each Stage separately is ignoring the fact that an actual ingredient of Stage 2 is the Stage 1 product and the fermentation process of the 2 products together does some stuff that may very well not be additive.  Same for Stage 3.  It would seem critical that, working correctly, BeerSmith would have to use Stage 1 as an ingredient of Stage 2, just like a grain, yeast or hop.  Taking them separately - I just don't see how that works. 

It is sounding like BeerSmith can't do this - so I did not overlook something obvious, at any rate.  Is this a typical Begian process and something that BeerSmith SHOULD be able to do?  Or is this a one-off and I just deal with it.  Or any more thoughts - anyone?

Thanks
Don

[DaveinPa]

I thought about using each stage as a misc component of the next stage, but I don't believe it will work - I'm pretty sure BS isn't that sophisticated.   

Sounds like an interesting beer though.  Is the first stage a decoction mash?  Are stages 1 and 2 fully fermented or only partial before blending with the next stage?  Can post the recipe?

[DonS]

Probably a better place for this, but here you go.

Three Layer Belgian Ale

Layer One
3.3 lbs Wheat Malt Extract
.5 lbs Belgian Wheat Grain (cracked)
.5 lbs Belgian Pale Grain (cracked)
.5 lbs Belgian Aromatic Grain (cracked)
1.5 oz Saaz
half peel from 1 orange or whole peel from 1 tangerine (chopped)
1 tbs coriander seeds (crushed)
1 pkg Wyeast liquid yeast - Belgian Ale or Belgian White Beer
Mash grains in 1 gal. 160f water for 1 hour.  Sparge with .5 gal. 170f water and return liquid to pot.  Add malt and hops.  Boil for 1 hour.  Remove from heat and add peel and coriander.  Steep for 15 min.  Strain into carboy and top out with cold water to make 2.5 gal.  Pitch yeast when cooled to 80f or below.  Attach airlock and ferment until krausen falls.  Then prepare Layer Two.

Layer Two
2 lbs. honey
3 sprigs fresh thyme or 1 tsp dry thyme
1 sprig fresh sage or 1 tsp dry sage
.5 oz Saaz
Heat .5 gal water and honey to 170f.  Add hops.  Remove fro heat and steep for 30 min.  Add herbs and steep for 10 min.  Strain into a carboy and top off with enough cold water to make 1.5 gal.  Cool to 80f or below and rack Layer One into Layer Two.  Attach air-lock and ferment until krausen falls.  Then prepare Layer Three.

Layer Three
3.3 lbs. wheat malt extract
1 oz. Saaz
Heat .5 gal. water to 170f.  Remove from heat and add malt.  Boil for 30 min.  Remove from heat and add hops.  Steep for 10 min.  Strain into new carboy and top out with enough water to make 1 gal.  Rack contents of the above (Layer One plus Layer Two) into this carboy. 

You now have a full carboy.  Attach blow-off tube and allow beer to ferment completely (I have no clue expected FG - that is one reason I wanted to run this through BS).  Prime and bottle as usual.  The beer will have big banana esters for the first few months but that will taper off with age.  Age 3 months or more. 

The only thing I have heard about this, comment-wise is:  This beer is very complex not just in the brewing process, but in the flavors that hide and then suddenly appear as it ages.  It is inspired by the Belgian brewers who like to blend beer while brewing.  Try it!  You'll be amazed.

If you are of a mind to take this on, please let me know how it turns out!  This is compliments of the beer recipes of Orlando Home Brew Beer, 6190 Edgewater Drive, Orlando, Florida.  www.heartshomebrew.com.

Thanks.
Don

[PetenNewburg]

  I'm sure this maybe too simple, but if it is a 5 gallon recipe, add all ingredients as if a single stage to get your OG.    Ferment to desired FG.  Sometimes simple is the answer.
  I'm in the process of a Double Imperial IPA with hop & corn sugar additions at the secondary and tertiary stages.  When just the boil ingredients are added to beersmith, It states a OG around 1.070(*measured 1.072).  When I add the corn sugar additions I get 1.102.  I racked to secondary after 72 hours, Primary FG was 1.025.  I added corn sugar & hops, after 14 days my Secondary FG was 1.020. Now into the Tertiary (additional hops & corn sugar) stage, day 8, fermention is slowing.  The point is it is still a 5 gallon recipe, just adding more fermentables.  So simply add it to the "boil" total.
  My yeast(Pac-Man) ferments to 11%.  When the bubbles stop, hopefully again around 1.020, I'll filter/ keg/ force carb and bottle with beergun.  This will give me a 10.8% IPA!

  *I used a single decoction mash, realized 81.2% efficiency!