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Using BeerSmith 2 for Pro Brewing (Scaling Recipes)

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BeerSmith:
Hi,
  I have a large number of microbreweries using BeerSmith now, so I created this board to help facilitate sharing information and lessons learned.  Feel free to add your own questions, tips or thoughts as a thread on this board.

  The most common question by far I get from Pro or microbrewers is how to scale their small batches up to work with the large multi-barrel systems.

  The process for doing this is:
   - Create an equipment profile for your large equipment setup - including the various volumes, losses, etc...
   - Adjust your brewhouse efficiency in the equipment profile - usually this is slightly higher (a few percent) than you will see on the small system
   - Within the equipment profile, adjust the hop utilization factor.  This factor should be 100% for batches of 20 gallons or less, but for large commercial systems it can be substantially higher (as high as 150-200% depending on the system).   For a large system it takes less hops for the same level of bitterness
  - Unfortunately I have no hard guideline for the hop utilization factor for a multi-barrel system.  You need to talk with your equipment manufacturer or another pro-brewer with a similar system to get a rough idea of what this number should be.

  Once you have the large system equipment profile set up, you can simply use the "Scale Recipe" command to scale a small recipe up - select the scale recipe command and select your large system equipment profile and BeerSmith will adjust the recipe to match.

Thanks,
Brad Smith

dogma46an2:
Oh I wish someone would post here . I have been working with a brewery getting ready to go big time. our system is just about ready to launch and doing 10 gal on a pilot system for the past few months is bullsh*t let me tell ya ... we are looking at a general rule of a pound per barrel . but i just think that cant always be right the hop situation is what worries me and im just not sure how to do the math for a 14bbl system ... would love to hear some feeback on guys with the same or around the same system .....

brewfun:
Some general settings I have for my system (15bbl, steam).

I set the hop utilization to 120% for pellets, 110% for plugs and 5% for whole. The calculations with Rager tend to be closest, for me. If you were asking about grain weight, the rule of thumb is 50# gets you into the 1.050 neighborhood.

dogma46an2:

--- Quote from: brewfun on September 05, 2011, 11:45:10 PM ---Some general settings I have for my system (15bbl, steam).

I set the hop utilization to 120% for pellets, 110% for plugs and 5% for whole. The calculations with Rager tend to be closest, for me. If you were asking about grain weight, the rule of thumb is 50# gets you into the 1.050 neighborhood.

--- End quote ---


Thanks man ..... I am going to plug in the % on the next brew to see what we get ...

///:
Sorry, slow, just saw this.

The key issue I think BS ignores is late kettle utilisation, specifically the whirlpool. I used to work with a IBD Bass trained diploma master trained brewer and he ignored it as well, being used to low AA hops in the 80's saw him miss the issues with high AA new world hops. With the raft of new high alpha flavour hops (topaz/galaxy as Aussie examples) the contribution of AA at whirlpool is significant, per below.

Thanks to the photospectometer, I can show I am getting upwards of 30% BU contribution at the whirlpool on the calculated bitterness. (using a  new 15bbl DME steam heated system with 40 minute run off).  ie., in a USA Pale using Citra/Cascade in the whirlpool I am getting 10-15 BU from the whirlpool (target 40) and have had to dial back the bittering hops to 25 BU to compensate.

On a lighter golden ale using topaz is event worse, with a target of 20-25 BU, I aim for 6 BU at bittering and am getting upwards of 30 BU from the whirlpool. So, I am taking out the whirlpool fraction and adding to the dry hop. One batch saw 35 BU come thru from the whirlpool hops.

The net affect would also be an issue for HB'ers cooling wort in a cube. I have no doubt most aim for the target BU from the initial addition, neglecting to wind down die to the excess stand and exposure times.

So, i dont know if the utilisation needs to go to 200, perhaps more the late hops need to be accounted for rather than showing 0 for BU contribution.

I dunno if and when I will revisit this forum (away for next 6 weeks), ping me an email at scotty@rocksbrewing.com as a follow-up and if I am getting the setting wrong.

Apart from that, I find the efficiency accurate. The new brewery claimed they had 90 efficiency, I claimed 72. Thier auger broke down, had to mash in manually and had thier efficiency jump near 15%. The auger was also churning the grain, whilst the head brewer was increasing mill gap to try and compensate and I was commenting on how fine the malt was. They should have listened to the BS calc's as they were spot on!

Scotty

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