• Welcome to the new forum! We upgraded our forum software with a host of new boards, capabilities and features. It is also more secure.
    Jump in and join the conversation! You can learn more about the upgrade and new features here.

Big Beer/Barleywine advice...

S

saylinaway

hey all...

love the advice on this site, so ill ask ya'll...

i plan on brewing my first high gravity beer soon.  It is a partial mash barleywine, and was wondering what advice anyone could offer me for before during and or after i brew.  what equipment is essential, what yeast(s) to use (the kit im buying has a typical wyeast and then champagne yeast for the second fermentation)
Things to watchout for etc...

much thanks to you all!!!  the software rocks but this forum is just as good!!!  double whammy!!

Brian
 
Brian,
Check out the Malted Bliss in the recipe section, it's all grain but it is an awesome Barley Wine.

First, drop the Champagne yeast, you do not need it.
Do NOT use Laaglander extract, too many non-fermentables.

Do a LONG boil, at least 2 hours, you will not regret it.  This will put some awesome flavors and complexity in your BW.  DO NOT eliminate or cut this down.

A Big Starter, preferably a yeast cake,  of WYEAST 1728 or 1007, controversial yes, but both ferment well cool.  Yeast flavor is not a big factor here,  Malt will be the key flavor component.

Aerate both the starter an the wort big.  Help those yeasties out.

Ferment cool IMHO 60F would be great, makes for a much cleaner ferment and since your fermentables are up, keep your byproducts down.  Also IMHO makes a much smoother brew.

When fermentation slows down Rouse the yeast at least twice a day, as often as you walk by.  

You want to target a FG of around 1.030 for a BW, even if your OG is 1.140, wou want the non-fermentables.

In a big beer you can use more hops, your choice as to how much or little.

The Grain Bill for a BW really is not that important,  You can make awesome BW using 100% 2-row, the process makes a big difference.

If you do all this you will have a very drinkable BW in about 2 months,  and it will get better from there.

Hope this helps

Fred


 
thanks for the great advice!!!  let me just say i have downlaoded all the recipies on the beersmith site and enjoy looking at yours bonjour!!  you get the alcohol levels so strong!!! amazing...  ive never seen beer that strong before!!!

also let me state, that i dont have the equipment for full mashes yet, so i will have to do what ever i do as a partial mash with some extract...

here are some follow up questions...

1.  i read somewhere that yeast kills itself by getting the alcohol levels too high... virtually suffocating itself... that is why the champange yeast was in the kit i was looking at... is that wrong??  or is the yeast you listed capable of going that high i am assuming... what i read was around 8% was the highest a normal yeast can go...

2.  what is a yeast cake?? ive only seem vials, pouches and bags...

3.  when you say "rouse the yeast" does that mean like swirl the fermentor, or shake it... or something i dont know about ;)

4.  i know they make wort aerators, is this neccecary or just shaking and aggitation enough??  also when aerating the yeast, same... shaking enough??

5.  so far i have not "started" any yeats... my brewshop guy just said pitch it... no need to start...  so by start, is that just following the instructions on the package or doing some special trick of the trade...

i appreciate all responses VERY much!!!!

Brian


 
1.  i read somewhere that yeast kills itself by getting the alcohol levels too high... virtually suffocating itself... that is why the champange yeast was in the kit i was looking at... is that wrong??  or is the yeast you listed capable of going that high i am assuming... what i read was around 8% was the highest a normal yeast can go...
Click to expand...

Nonsense,  I've only used "normal" yeast

2.  what is a yeast cake?? ive only seem vials, pouches and bags...
Click to expand...

Make a batch of beer using your target yeast,  Rack the beer and bottle it.

The yeast in the bottom of the fermentor is a "yeast Cake"  rack your new beer right on top of it.

3.  when you say "rouse the yeast" does that mean like swirl the fermentor, or shake it... or something i dont know about ;)
Click to expand...
exactly, to keep the yeast in suspension.  This is important with big beers.

4.  i know they make wort aerators, is this neccecary or just shaking and aggitation enough??  also when aerating the yeast, same... shaking enough??
Click to expand...
Many will say no, you need O2, you need an aeration stone, etc and so on.  Shaking and agitation will be enough, but you have to do more of it than you usually do.

5.  so far i have not "started" any yeats... my brewshop guy just said pitch it... no need to start...  so by start, is that just following the instructions on the package or doing some special trick of the trade...
Click to expand...

I'll buy that for normal strength beers, though many will say to make a starter.  A yeast cake is a monster starter.

Another good source is the brewer (not the wait staff) AT YOUR LOCAL MICROBREWERY.  Take in a sanitized growler from that brewery and ask if he could pull off some yeast for you.  Most will do it.

Fred
 
Thank you sooo much!!!

your advice has been invaluable!!!

I think i will skip the kit i was looking at and purchase the ingredients necessary for making the malted bliss as you recomend... (i am going to asume this recipe is yours... judging by the name on it  ;))

And since i have a captive audience here i will ask...

being that i dont have the equipment for a full mash (nor the skill, but im working on that part :p) would you recomend either for or against converting the recipe using beersmith to a partial mash???  would i loose alot of the beers charachteristics by doing that??

as allways your help is greatly appreciated!!! ;D

Brian
 
Oh, and i have a microbewery across from my office... 21st amendment brewery...
I am definatly going to try and get them to part with some of thier yeast!!!  

Great tip!!

Thanks
 
One question,

What OG would you like, How big do you want to go?

That recipe would not work well as an extract/partial, too much carapils and crystal.  I'll work one up for you.  What brands of extract do you have available to you?  It makes a difference in big beers.

Fred
 
It would be totally awsome if you did that!!  as of yet, i can follow instructions very well, but have not yet found my way when it comes to the designing... beersmith is making it alot easier though let me tell you!!

I would like to go 10+ ABV without bieng overly hoppy...  is that possible with partial mashes without losing any of the key charachteristics of the big beers??

my local brewstore has generic liquid and dry malt extracts, but im sure i can get them to order what ever i want them to, and/or i can order online serveral other extracts...
the website i usually go to is
http://www.homebrewheaven.com
they have several nongeneric brands both hopped and unhopped... as well as what i can only assume is the whole line of wyeast liquid yeasts...

thanks for all your help... i can only hope that someday i can repay the favor!!!  ;D

 
One more question,  American or English style?

I prefer English.  I found a 2003 Michigan State Fair 1st Place award winner by a brewer that wins many awards, it is for a Hoppy American Barley Wine.  Tweaking it is no problem, just need to know what direction to go.

(edit)  I also need to know your brewpot size.  That greatly affects hop utilization.  (I have to increase the hops to give you less than half the utilization)

Fred
 
Either one sounds good... (i really dont know the difference  :eek:)  If it wins awards and/or you recomend it, i cant really lose!!!

My brew pot is 30 qts.  I also have a 25qt. pot, and a 20qt., so which ever is the better one to use i can use any (i am assuming the 30 qt for better malt/hops usage...???)

Thanks again for all your help!!

Brian
 
Use the 30 qt pot and a full volume boil.  My preference is for English Barley Wine, less hoppy and with English hops vs American hops
I need your email to send you the .bsm file.

Fred


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: June Madness
Brewer: Fred Bonjour
Asst Brewer:
Style: English Barleywine
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (45.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal      
Boil Size: 7.99 gal
Estimated OG: 1.098 SG
Estimated Color: 20.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 57.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: - %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount       Item                                      Type         % or IBU    
11 lbs       DME Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM)     Dry Extract  75.9 %      
1 lbs        DME Wheat Bavarian (Briess) (8.0 SRM)     Dry Extract  6.9 %        
8.0 oz       Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)    Grain        3.4 %        
8.0 oz       Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM)       Grain        3.4 %        
8.0 oz       Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)               Grain        3.4 %        
4.0 oz       Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM)                   Grain        1.7 %        
4.0 oz       Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (320.0 SRM)  Grain        1.7 %        
4.0 oz       Caramel Malt - 80L 6-Row (Briess) (80.0 SRGrain        1.7 %        
4.0 oz       Special Roast (Briess) (50.0 SRM)         Grain        1.7 %        
4.00 oz      Goldings, East Kent [4.10%]  (60 min)     Hops         43.9 IBU    
2.00 oz      Goldings, East Kent [4.10%]  (15 min)     Hops         10.9 IBU    
1.00 oz      Goldings, East Kent [4.10%]  (5 min)      Hops         2.2 IBU      
1 Pkgs       London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318)        Yeast-Ale                
1 Pkgs       Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728)          Yeast-Ale                


Mash Schedule: None
Total Grain Weight: 10.00 lb
----------------------------


Notes:
------
This recipe was modified from the following
Old Westsider

Brewer: Jeff Carlson
MSF Category: 5159
Style:                American Barleywine
Gallons:            5.75 gallons
Malt:                10 lbs Muntons Extra Light DME
1 lbs Muntons Wheat DME
0.5 lbs Caramunich
0.5 lbs 130 L Crystal
0.5 lbs Carapils
0.25 lbs 80L Crystal
0.25 lbs Special Roast
0.25 lbs Biscuit
0.25 lbs Debittered Chocolate
Procedure: Steep grains at 154 F for 30 minutes
Hops:               3 oz. Centennial (10.7%) – 60 min
1 oz Cascade (6.5%) – 45 min
1 oz Cascade (6.5%) – 20 min
1 oz Cascade (6.5%) – 5 min
Boil Time:         60 minutes
Yeast:               Wyeast 1332 – Northwest Ale Yeast (Big Slurry from previous batch of pale ale)
Carbonation:     Forced
Primary:            10 days at 68 F
Secondary:       6 weeks at 50 F
O.G.               1.098
F.G.                1.022
 
this list is as close as i could get using my usual site...

some of the stuff looks like they just spelled it differently or call it a different name...

let me know if any of this will not work or has a different intended purpose than the origonal list... (mainly the hops as they didnt have east kent golding, (which are fairly common right???) so i had to substitue yakima kent goldings... i am sure my local brew store will have east kent though if it is not substitutable... or are these the same...)

2  HH Dry Malt Extract (DME), 5 lb. Bag Light (not extra light though...)

1  HH Dry Malt Extract (DME), 1 lb. Bag Light (not extra light though...)

1  HBH Wheat Dry Malt Extract 1 lb

8oz  Dark Crystal Malt, 120 Lov.
 
8oz  Belgian Caramunich

8oz  Cara-Pils® (Dextrin) Malt

4oz  Victory (Biscuit) Malt

4oz  German Karaffe Malt

4oz  Dark Crystal Malt, 90 Lov.
 
4oz  Special Roast

3  Yakima Kent Goldings Leaf Hops - 2 Oz.

1  Wyeast London III Yeast #1318

1  Wyeast Scottish Ale Yeast #1728

you have been very helpfull!!!

thanks

Brian
 
Drop the German Karaffe malt.

You are using it to replace a debittered chocolate malt (Carafa Special I) that is there primarily for color.  It will be fine without it.

Fred

 
BONJOUR.....Could you please tell me how you added your Wyeast 4 ot 5 days after fermentation began. Did you hydrate it first? did you add it to your starter wort? I am confused with this..my recipe book does not give specific details for this and I don't want to ruin the batch! Thank you 357. :-[
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top