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Help Understanding the Numbers

Humble Brewer

Master Brewer
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
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Location
Oak Harbor, WA
Hello all,

I am a new Beersmith user.  I purchased it just as I was switching to all grain.  I have been doing extract brewing since 2001 and figured it was time to step up my game.  But honestly some of the calculations are kicking by rear.  Most of them reside around the idea of efficiency and the various stages of gravity reading. 

When I import a recipe it comes with grain and water amounts.  I brew using those amounts and my gravities never line up.  In addition, Beersmith seems to already have an efficiency associated with the recipe and I can't seem to get it to change when I put in my numbers.  Assuming I put them in the right spot.

When I try and build a recipe from scratch and manually add the grains and adjuncts Beersmith still seems to autopopulate most numbers for me.  Further convincing me I am making some form of mistake when my numbers don't line up.

I have tried three or four runs through the system so far and using a tip I found elsewhere on this site to display actual efficiency every one of the recipes has a different efficiency number.  I would think that somehow my system would settle within a margin of error that I would recognize as where my gear operates.  I have some recipes coming in super low (40's and 50's) and some coming up in the higher end (70's).  I seem to be all over the spectrum.

Help!
 
I am new to BeerSmith also, I can tell you what I did. I loaded a recipe that I already brewed before Beersmith, I played with the software to get close to what I thought my efficiency was. My first batch came up low on Sg pre boil, I had a pound of DME on hand and that addition saved batch. From that first batch I was able to see how things were being calculated and I adjusted my profile to the equipment I use. I also now have a better estimated mash efficiency. I finally figured out that I have to adjust recipes, no matter were I get them, to my system and efficiency. Load the recipe and adjust amounts to achieve the target OG and IBU's. Beersmith has a tool that adjust ingredient amounts to what ever the OG and IBU targets that you enter. So if the recipe calls for 1.045 OG and 30 IBU , load recipe and use OG and IBU adjustment tool to adjust the amounts to your brewing system profile.
 
You decide the brewhouse efficiency number (the [Tot Efficiency] field value) manually in each of your recipes, based on your system and practices.  It’s static and does not re-calc.  Once you’ve brewed a few, and reviewed your calculated [Measured Efficiency] field, you should have a better idea if you need to manually adjust your prescribed Brewhouse Efficiency value.  I started off at 72% and kept it there for years until I realized simply that if I take over an hour to lauter I get 80 to 81% efficiency regularly – so since my process now always does include an 1+ hour lauter, I’ve changed all my recipes to 80%.

What I recommend to new users is to go ahead and use the [Select Fields] button and remove some of the “noise” fields that don’t need to be there and order the fields such that it makes sense to you.

The math behind the various forms have to have default values or you’d get various divided by zero errors.  Almost all of the default values automatically recalculate across the board as you manually change things.  It’s pretty cool actually.  Probably very complex behind the scenes.

(I would love to see that improvement of BeerSmith though – some kind of color code for default values such that I can more easily see what info is default vs. my own – i.e. if it’s default I need to change it to whatever my actual value was.  I realize this is hard to implement though.  Especially with copies of copies of copies of templates.  It would probably be even more confusing and complex.)

Just some thoughts.  Good luck.

 
This could get kind of long....I'll try and be concise:

First, you must measure the losses of your mash-tun, and your brew-kettle. 

Measuring your kettle is easy.  Fill it with water, and drain it out however you normally do so.  Then, tip it over and pour out anything that's left and measure it.  This is your trub-loss.

Measuring your mash-tun deadspace is trickier, because unless you have a false-bottom you don't have a "true" deadspace.  You still have a portion of the mash-tun (maybe a quart of VOLUME) where you can't pickup wort, but the space is filled with grain.  So, its only the space between the grain that is truly dead wort volume...which might only be half of the total volume.  I measured mine after I finished a batch of beer by simply closing the lid of my cooler and turning it upside down into my brew kettle.  The excess wort drained out into my kettle where I could then measure it.  I have a round stainless false bottom in a 50 quart cooler, and my excess wort was something like 2 cups.

Then you put those numbers into your equipment profile. 

Next, when you get a recipe from someone else, you need to know what efficiency it was prepared for.  70% is a common number, but there's no guarantee.  You just have to ask.  Then you have to scale the recipe to YOUR efficiency.  BS2 can do this, but I'm not at home and I forget the clickety-clickety off the top of my head.  Something like "Scale recipe" and then select "by efficiency", enter from and to data, click OK.

Next you need to choose a sparging method:  batch or fly.  I do batch, and I recommend that new AG brewers do batch, also.  Its more predictable and less susceptible to error.  It will let you focus on the rest of the AG processes, which are more important than sparging method.  You can always go back and switch to fly later. 

Once you pick a method, work on doing it the same every single time.  Use the same water/grist ratio every time.  for batch sparging use the same number of batches every time.  Stir each batch the same....let it sit for the same amount of time between runoffs, vorlauf the same.  For fly sparging, use the same run-off rate every time. 

Since most people want to boil for a fixed about of time, target OG has a big impact on actual efficiency.  This is because you will stop sparging once you hit your target pre-boil volume.  With a larger grain bill, you will be leaving sugars behind in the mash-tun.  That's just the way it is.  To get around that, you would have to sparge until all the sugar was removed from the MLT, and then boil a lot longer for a high-gravity beer because you'd have 50% more water in the kettle.  So, expect to see a 5% loss for each 10 points of increase in OG.  For me I see the following:

Post-Boil-OG    Efficiency
1.030                    90%
1.040                    85%
1.050                    80%
1.060                    75%
1.070                    70%

and so on....So, when learning to AG, and dial in a system (and your technique)...its best to stick with a narrow OG range.  It doesn't matter where you start...just stay there until you can repeat the results.  1.050 is a good starting point because there is a plethora of recipes in that range. 

The biggest drivers in AG efficiency are grain crush, dough-balls, and sparging technique.  Since you are new to AG, I assume you have your grain milled at the LHBS.  If not, then DO THAT.  Their crush may not be ideal, but it is probably consistent. 

Dough-balls are caused by adding water to grain, and pour mixing (often caused by a small MLT).  Its much easier to get a good dough-in by putting the strike water in the MLT first and then adding the grain slowly while stirring constantly.  As the mash starts to get thick, slow down the rate of new grain.  Make sure its all mixed before adding more.  Many new AG brewers start with a small MLT, usually the same size as their batch (5g MLT for a 5g batch, etc).  This means that a 1.050 beer fills 75% or so of the MLT.  Any vigorous stiring is going to cause splashing and overflowing.  So, because they are being careful not to splash they don't mix it well enough. 

Ideally your MLT should be twice the size of your batch size: 10g for 5g batch.  This lets you make anything up to about 1.090.  If you want to make bigger beers than that with all grains...then you probably need a second mash tun for those beers, because a 20g cooler would be a little small for a 1.036 beer. 

Finally, when you are troubleshooting efficiency it is important to collect a LOT of ACCURATE data.  Volume measurement is the most sloppy, but is critical in assessing any problems.  You MUST calibrate your volume measurements.  I use ONE vessel for measuring all volumes.  I have a graduated 1 gallon jug, and I use it for everything.  I use it to make markings on my sight glass on my brew kettle, and on my fermenters.  I use it to measure and transfer wort from the MLT to the kettle.  You need to measure volume that is accurate to the single CUP---1/4th of a quart.  If your kettle is only graduated in gallons, you cannot be this accurate.  You must graduate in QUARTS, then you can eyeball the fraction of a quart. 

For SG, you need to cool your sample below 100F in order to get an accurate SG reading.  The correction tables don't work very well above 100F.

Ensure that your thermometer is calibrated.  Check it in ICE water and boiling water.  use one thermometer for all measurements until you are certain others can be trusted.  When you have a problem to sort out...revert to one trusted instrument for everything.

For batch sparging, you should measure the SG, temperature, and volume of each of your runnings.  Calculate the amount of sugar in each running, and add it all together.  Then make the same measurements pre-boil of the whole wort in the kettle.  Everything should add up.  If not, something is wrong somewhere. 

I'm not a fly sparger...so I don't have much advice other than the instrumentation advice above.  I know that manifold design is KEY, so is crush (even more than batch), and so is runoff rate. 

See these links for a thorough treatise on the topic:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency

there....I think I kept this pretty short. 








 
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