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Got fruity apple like esters in my Ale. Will it improve with age?

Mrinlumino

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Hi.

Yesterday I retried my Burtils Ale, an ale based on a recipe for the Burton Ale that comes with the BeerSmith software. It is now five weeks since I bottled the brew and I was hoping that the beer would taste good by now. Unfortunately I found an unpleasant component in the aroma and after taste reminding me of fruity apple like esters that I did not like at all. I did some reading up om the yeast used for this beer and found a lot of comments about sharp fruits and the need for aging.

Do you think that I have to worry about the beer being infected or is it likely that five weeks on bottles is to short a time for the brew to harmonize? This is my third brew so I still don't know how much patients I need to have before giving final judgement on my brews. My first two beers took five weeks to become alright which is why I expected the same from my Burtil Ale.

Did some writing with more details on this topic on my brewing blog: http://jurslabrew.inlumino.se/?p=401&lang=en

Best regards, Anders Rosen, a new homebrewer from Sweden.
http://jurslabrew.inlumino.se/?lang=en
 
What yeast did you use, and how long did the beer sit in the primary fermentor?  At what temperature?

The usual cause for "too much" sharp green apple is acetylaldehyde.  It's created to some degree in most beers, and the yeast cleans it up at the end of primary. 

Yeast strain and temperatures influence how much is created, and moving the beer off the primary yeast cake too soon prevents the needed clean-up. 
 
Hi,

Thank you for you response.

I used the White Labs Burton Ale yeast (WLP023) http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp023.html. I used one tube of yeast for 5 gallon of wort. I did not do a starter and the fermentation was rather hesitant to start If I remember correctly.

I had the brew in the primary fermenter for 7 days (it stopped bubbling after three days) and in the secondary fermentor for 9 days. The temperature was between 68 and 73 degrees Fahrenheit.

Efter bottling I kept the bottles in the same temperature for three weeks to carbonate the beer properly and after that period I put the beer in the refrigerator where it has been for about two weeks now.

So what do you think? Did I do any obvious misstakes or is it possible that the beer will improve over the next couple of weeks and end up ok anyway?

Best regards, Anders Rosen
http://jurslabrew.inlumino.se/?lang=en
 
I'm not sure how much better it will get.  Not sure how much acetaldehyde declines over time. 


For future brews, I'd recommend keeping the temperature under 68F, and allowing 14 days in the primary fermenting vessel. 

The yeast cells need that time to clean up acetaldehyde and diacetyl that get produced earlier. 
 
OK, I will take the beer out of the fridge and stack em warm for another four weeks and see what the remaining yeast may do for me. I am not ready to give up on the beer quite yet.

I am a bit surprised of your recommendation to keep the temperature below 68 when white labs recommended temperature for the yeast I used is between 68 and 73 degrees. I also thought that the point of racking the beers to a secondary carboil is to remove the brew from the dead yeast, I mean there is plenty of health-some yeast cells remaining in the brew even in the secondary fermentor. If so it I figured that it wouldn't matter exactly when you rack the beer to a secondary carboil whould it?

I have heard that the hardest talent for a newly home brewer to learn is patients and damn if that isn't totally true :)

Brgds Anders
http://jurslabrew.inlumino.se/?lang=en
 
Yeast generate some heat during the active fermentation, so if the "space" around the carboy is 68F, then the inside of the fermenter might be 2-4F higher. 

Leaving beer on the primary yeast too long is a minor risk, but typically would not be a problem for at least a month, and probably longer.  Depends on yeast strain and the ambient temperature, among other factors. 
 
I did not take the increased temperature due to the fermentation itself into account, don't know how I managed to miss that obvious fact. Thank you for that important piece of fact!

I still hope that the beer will improve some with age so now I try to speed up the aging a bit by acting like a Champagne manufacture for a bit.  :)  http://jurslabrew.inlumino.se/?p=416&lang=en
 
While it is possible that taking the beer off the yeast cake was the cause of acetaldehyde, the more likely cause was underpitching. I have had problems with the dreaded green apple/ cidery taste and both times it was due to underpitching. The off flavor will fade over time but will never go away completely. What was your OG? pretty much anything over 1.050 I will definately use a starter. MrMalty.com has a great resource for pitching rates.

Also, instead of watching for bubbles receding you may want to take a gravity reading. When the beer reaches your intended final gravity it will be time to move to secondary. Keep in mind though that the yeast will need time to "clean out" the beer. Pitching properly, good aeration, and ferment temps will greatly speed up this process.

My advice would be to follow the guidelines of: proper pitching rate, aerate well, keep a constistent ferment temp, and don't rack to secondary without checking gravity. All of these techniques have basically removed my acetaldehyde off flavor.

Good luck and happy brewing.

Justin
 
Underpitching is not something I have considered to be a possible root for my problems. The beer I brewed had a OG of 1.054 and I used a single tube of White labs liquid yeast #WLP023 for a 5.2 gallon batch. I thought I could suffice without a starter for this brew, knowing the starting gravity and volume, do you still think my problem was underpitching.

I have avoided to do gravity reading during fermentation because I wanted to avoid unnecessary sources of contamination and I hate to clean my auto siphon :) I had read several recomendation to rack the beer to secondary after a few days with very slow bubbling so that is what I have been going for so far.

I have not yet tried to do starters but my plan is to do it begining with my next batch. I have ordered a suitable test tube with airlock and some dried malt extract that I am expecting delivered tomorrow.

Brgds Anders Rosen
http://jurslabrew.inlumino.se/?lang=en
 
Mrinlumino said:
The beer I brewed had a OG of 1.054 and I used a single tube of White labs liquid yeast #WLP023 for a 5.2 gallon batch.

We each probably have our own upper limit, and this is close to the White/Wye limits.  I always do a starter b/c I don't know the viability, especially with White Labs b/c there is no smackpack expansion. 

So while on paper this may seem like enough yeast to skip the starter, no one can tell if there's 90 billion or 50 billion cells alive in that tube/package. 
 
I just remembered that the fermentation took quite a long time to initiate for this specific brew and I guess that can also be considered proof for possible underpitching.

I got my nice glas half gallon test tube with suitable airlock in the mail today and I am receiving my dry malt extract and yeast nutrition tomorrow so from now on I hope I dont have to worry about underpitching tired and old yeast anymore.

By the way, is there a danger with overpitching yeast or can I happily go on with my starters and add huge amount of yeast cells without worrying about other possible problems?

Brgds, Anders Rosen
http://jurslabrew.inlumino.se/?lang=en
 
There are pitching rates that are appropriate for various OGs and batch sizes, finding yours can be as simple as going on line to one of the popular yeast calculators such as http://www.mrmalty.com/ or http://yeastcalc.com/. Either of these will put you on the right track.

Yeast do their best work when there is an adequate food supply - not too much, and not too little - there is an optimal range where you will not only get optimal growth, but also the healthiest yeast possible. It's not just about how much yeast, it's equally important that your yeast is healthy and happy. This, along with good temperature control, will make for good fermentation.
 
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