Author Topic: Strike Temp Confusion in BS  (Read 8587 times)

Offline Sudz

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Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« on: January 05, 2011, 08:14:35 AM »
I've just started using BeerSmith and must confess I like it. However, I have run into a mystery when using it to calculate my strike temp.

If I use the MASH STEP pop up tool by selecting the strike step from my MASH PROFILE in RECIPE VIEW it gives me a figure of 174.1 degrees for my strike temp with the ADJ TEMP FOR EQUIP checked and 171.1 when not checked.

If however, I use the STRIKE/INFUSION TOOL from the left menu, it gives me 172.9 for the same data. It turns out the 174.1 is correct for my system.  However, I use the 174.1 and preheat to that temp which is obviously not what BS intends.

The 174.1 vs 171.1 differs by preheating or no preheating as I understand it.  I don't know what the basis for the 172.9 is but assume it is for no preheating.

Why are these sources for the same data not providing the same results?

Anyone know?

Offline Pirate Point Brewer

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 03:35:48 PM »
Wow!!  That's alot of questions!!  I hope Brad pops in to offer his expertise.  If not, here are my assumptions.

The srtike temp given without the "Adj." box checked is just the grain @ the temp displayed when you open the mash profile details box. No assumptions about the tun.
When the box is checked, adjustments are made based on the mash tun selected in the equipment profile with the tun and the grain at the temp entered in the Mash Profile Details. If you open the Equipment Profile Details, there are many variables about the tun that can be "Tuned" to help you hit your strike target. All of the talk you read about "Dialing in your Equipment" is tweaking these variable so that you hit your strike target with your tun and grain at the temps entered in the Mash Details box.  It takes a few iterations but once dialed in, you can be very very close or dead on every time. Pre-heating just confuses the issue and distorts the results.

I'm honestly not sure about the assumptions made in the Tool. It does allow you to input the grain temp and tun weight. So it gets you close. Certainly as close as you would get using just the basic cals given in brew books or simple spreadsheets. But once the equipment profile is "Dialed in", none of the basic calcs are as close.

Hope that helps. If not maybe others will comment with better details!

Preston
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Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 10:41:25 PM »
If you open the Equipment Profile Details, there are many variables about the tun that can be "Tuned" to help you hit your strike target. All of the talk you read about "Dialing in your Equipment" is tweaking these variables..

I think that is it.  There are a couple places where the Recipe calculator is more exact than the tool b/c it uses more inputs. 

Offline grathan

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 07:59:51 AM »
Hi,
  I'm not sure yet - but I will dive into the actual equations and try to determine the differences if any.

  I did just double check the infusion calculator and it appears to be correct.  I'm going to take a look at the "adjustment calculator" equations tomorrow.

Thanks,
Brad

This is from another thread, but seems to imply that the Infusion Tool is correct and not the Mash Step?

Offline durrettd

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 02:07:12 PM »
I did some experimenting and found that if I used all the same inputs in the mash pop-up, the infusion tool, and the equipment profile I got the same results from both the mash pop-up and the infusion tool. If you use the same "Grain Temperature", "Tun Temperature", "Mash Tun Weight", "Mash Tun Specific Heat", and "Infusion Water to Add" where they appear in all three, then select "Adjust Temp for Equipment", the strike infusion water temperature will be the same in both. Note that changing the equipment profile after you have created your recipe does not change the equipment profile used in the calculations; you must re-select the changed profile to bring the changes into your recipe.

BeerSmith has lots of moving parts; apparently, different tools/pop-ups use some of the same stored inputs and allow you to provide real-time inputs to override the stored data. In this case if you provide inputs for the infusion tool that are not the same as those stored in your equipment profile, BeerSmith will use your real-time inputs, not the stored inputs and the results will be different.

Dan

Offline bucknut

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 04:14:53 PM »
Hmmmmm, so now I know why I haven't been hitting my strike temps. Been using the recipe "mash" tab to get my initial water temps and have been coming up short the last two times by about 3 degrees. Used the infusion tool and get a higher infusion/strike temp, by about 3 degrees. Infusion tool has same data as my equip profile and in the "mash" tab for the recipe. I know now to use the infusion tool next time.

Offline grathan

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 06:53:51 PM »
One thing that I noticed is that there is no option for tun capacity in the infusion tool while changing this number in the equipment profile does change the strike temp.

Offline alcaponejunior

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 06:16:30 PM »
This is the exact issue I'm struggling with before doing my first all grain batch.  Hopefully I figure it out in advance before brew day!  I'm replying mostly to mark this thread so I can figure it out lol  ::)

Offline bucknut

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 08:28:49 PM »
This is the exact issue I'm struggling with before doing my first all grain batch.  Hopefully I figure it out in advance before brew day!  I'm replying mostly to mark this thread so I can figure it out lol  ::)

Just use some of the water and boil it, have it ready to add if you need to raise the temp. I didn't the first time, but on the second brew I was ready.

Offline Curly55

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 11:31:36 PM »
So I know this is going to sound dumb, but I figure I cant get any dumber by asking. So in the equipment profile set up it asked for the tun weight. My question is, is this the actual weight as it sits on a scale? If not, I cant think of what it would be. Please help.
Thanks
1 Timothy 5:23

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 11:23:56 AM »
Hope so.  That's what I entered.

Offline alcaponejunior

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Re: Strike Temp Confusion in BS
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 03:42:53 PM »
So I know this is going to sound dumb, but I figure I cant get any dumber by asking. So in the equipment profile set up it asked for the tun weight. My question is, is this the actual weight as it sits on a scale? If not, I cant think of what it would be. Please help.
Thanks

Yeah mine defaulted to 10lbs but it actually weighs more like 5, and when I adjusted it there was a considerable temp difference.  I assume it's because of the heat absorption properties and mass of the vessel. 

 

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