Author Topic: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?  (Read 30424 times)

Offline Arizona500

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What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« on: November 24, 2012, 01:08:37 PM »
My question is what does a prolonged wort cooling period do?

I am in the process of fermenting a Portland Pale Ale where I added hops 10 min before end of boil and another hops 1 min before end of boil (loose not in a bag).  Instructions stated to measure temperature in fermenter.  When brew pot was, what I though warm to the touch while in ice bath, I poured it into a glass carboy.  When I measured temperature in carboy it was still close to 100 degrees.  I placed the glass carboy in cold water but it appeared the glass was a pretty good insulator and it took 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 of an hour to get the temperature down to just below 80 degrees when I pitched the yeast.  It appears to be fermenting nicely.  I assume the elevated temperature allowed the wort to continue to cook so will the prolonged cooling off period make the final beer more hopy???

Offline skeightley

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 01:36:26 AM »
One of the main issues of long cooling off period is a (greatly) increased chance of re-infection. The wort will stay at mid-high range temperatures for some time, perfect bacteria breeding range. If you have maintained high levels of sanitation throughout this probably won't be a problem. Probably....

Offline merfizle

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2012, 09:52:22 AM »
None, IMO, for infection really.  Most breweries whirlpool for 30-60 minutes.  Lowering temps quickly does aid in beer clarity though.

Mark
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 09:54:26 AM by merfizle »
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Offline tom_hampton

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 10:31:29 PM »
As mark said, not much risk of infection.  But, your handling of a glass carboy is risky.  Putting 100f wort into a carboy, and the placing that in a cold bath is inviting glass breakage. 

Carboys are made with very poor glass.  They are notorious for breaking very easily. Any minor imperfections can propagate into a disaster. 
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Offline Arizona500

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 10:28:40 AM »
Thanks everyone for your replies.  You have eased my fears about doing something very wrong.  Lesson learned is to use my thermometer while the wort is still in my brew pot which I will be sure to do next time.  Fermentation is proceeding as expected at day 6 with activity having decreased and foam is dissipating.  I have never transferred to a secondary before but plan to on day 12 to see if this helps with clarification. I suspect fermentation will have ended by then.  At the beginning of fermentation I placed a small amount of wort in a beer bottle as a  secondary fermenter and will check the SG with this sample.  Thanks again!

Keith

Offline tom_hampton

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 07:34:55 PM »
Transferring to secondary will not improve clarity.

Clarity is improved by 3 things :

1. Time settle still without being disturbed. 
2. Fining agents
3. Filtering

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Offline cooldood

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 02:20:10 PM »
I don't know why people don't use ice more often to cool the wort.  I use my well water for the make up water in the fermenter which would be the same water I make ice with.

Offline gtreloquence

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 04:43:20 PM »
I don't know why people don't use ice more often to cool the wort.  I use my well water for the make up water in the fermenter which would be the same water I make ice with.

Are you talking about adding the ice directly into the kettle?

Offline cooldood

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 07:03:49 PM »
Putting the ice in the fermenter and then pouring the hot wort into it. 

Offline gtreloquence

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 07:42:54 AM »
Most people stay away from that practice because the ice generally isn't considered sanitized. You can boil the water you're using and sanitize the tray but there's no guarantee you won't pick up something to infect the wort from the freezer.

Offline cooldood

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 09:59:57 AM »
I personally think this is a good one for mythbusters .
I always add make up water into the fermenter to get to the correct volume.  This water is never boiled.  I am also not afraid of getting sick by drinking the water or using the ice.

When making extract beer the make water is never boiled

Offline durrettd

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 11:01:10 AM »
I'm not the most disciplined with my sanitation, but I'd really recommend boiling your extract brews. In an earlier life I was a biologist, and it's amazing the things that live in our water without making us sick. When we don't kill those critters by boiling, then provide them with sugar and other nutrients they can out-compete the yeast we want eating the sugar. The results are often less than desirable. I'd love to see Mythbusters take this on; my experience says it isn't a myth.

When I started brewing in the late 80s, the owner of the local shop sold me a couple of kits that he assured me did not need to be boiled. They were highly mediocre. It took three sutures to close the gash in the back of my arm when one bottle exploded. After those two no-boil kits I always boiled and my beers improved. The homebrew shop went broke.

Please read John Palmer's "How to Brew". It's available as a book and on-line (free) at: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter1-1.html

Offline ultravista

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 11:29:26 AM »
My $.02 ...

Invest in a chiller. I use a plate chiller (30 plates) with a thermometer. By throttling the ball valve on my keggle, I can increase/decrease the flow to the chiller to get the max chilling throughput.

Through a slow drain, I was able to drop the work from 160+ to 62 degrees.

I would avoid ice in the fermenter.

Offline cooldood

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 06:45:34 PM »
I appreciate all the input.  But at the risk of sounding cynical I still believe is is possible.  Coopers sells million of kits per year and they are no boil.  I would assume the market would correct that if there was a large risk.  I am in the food  manufacturing industry and agree there is an increased risk, but how much?  We hear everyday about people getting killed in car wrecks but we know the risk is low and still drive
I have read John's book and purchased his 3rd edition so I put a lot of value on what he says.
But in V1 You must transfer to secondary

V3  Secondary is highly over rated.  (just another myth proven wrong)

I would love to see some real data on the risk.


Offline jomebrew

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Re: What is bad about long wort cooling off period?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 10:21:12 AM »
Homebrew sanitation and process practices help minimize the chances of an infections growing to detection levels.   There is wild yeast and bacterial everywhere and the risk for infection is 100% of every batch of beer.  How likely?  Pretty small.   

Why rapidly cool wort?  Mitigate some of the risk and make the likelihood even smaller.  Bacteria will survive 160F tend to thrive in temperatures below 140F.  Rapidly cooling limits the infection growth and pitching yeast at the proper pitching temp allows yeast to rapidly grow while the bacteria contamination is suppressed.

The problems with infections is that you wasted time and money making the beer.  Why not take the extra precautions to avoid an infected beer?

The risk of being in a car accident is pretty high.  Something like 65% of us will be in one someday.  How is the risk of dying affected if you don't wear a seatbelt and have no airbags?   About 55% of folks without restraints die. So, you are 50% more likely to be killed. With restrains, you increase survivability to about 75%. 

 

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