Steeping Dark Grains

Looking for advice on steeping my dark grains. My goal is to make intensely flavored stouts and porters without the harshness sometimes associated with using large amounts of dark grains like chocolate, roasted barley or black patent. I'm sure Carafa could be used for some of the dark matter, but I'd like some complexity in the darker flavors without harshness.

Assuming I'll mash only the lighter grains; I'll typically control the mash pH by acidifying the mash water prior to bringing it to strike temp. I'll also incorporate water adjustments in each step where adjustment is needed. My question is how should I steep the dark grains and where in the process should I add the dark liquid?

The methods I've heard/read about thus far involve steeping the dark grains in a separate pot at 165 F for a short time - sort of a mini-mash - drain, pour the dark liquid into the boil kettle, add the grains to the mash and start the lauter and brew as usual. Then there's the method of cold-steeping the dark grains overnight and adding the same way as above, or adding to the fermenter.

Of course these methods elicit more questions; is there any advantage to hot- vs. cold-steeping; what are your preferred methods? And when should one add the dark liquid to the brew - in the boil kettle while lautering, in the boil (beginning or toward the end?) or in the fermenter (primary - before or after fermentation is complete, or Secondary)?

I started adding to my mash when I sparge.  I spread them across the top during vorlauf and then batch sparge.  No noticeable drop in dark malr characters.

It is personal preference I love stouts and porters and have added dark grains crusted to my mash and also have added them not crushed to mash have steep them in the wort ect. ect.
I have not detected or have had any of my beer friends notice all that much of a difrence in any of the techs, I believe if you get your mash temps. times and PH correct you should have a nice finish.

Matt

I haven't steeped yet. I think one advantage of cold vs hot is time. There is a pretty big flavor difference when making cold-brewed ice coffee vs using the hot coffee pot so I would be inclined to do a cold steep for a couple days then just dump that in the boil kettle.

The dehusked/debittered Carafa and black patent malts probably wouldn't have any noticeable harshness. Perhaps you just don't care for the taste of roasted barley? You could always steep a couple trials and taste them and see if it is something you would like in your beer. You could also mix this steeped concoction into to an actual beer.

Gordon Strong discusses this technique in 'Brewing Better Beer'.  Worth a look. 

That's where I heard about this - from Gordon's book - what a wealth of knowledge there, really got my gears turning!

I would gladly invest the extra time to cold-steep if I knew I could get deep intense roasted flavors w/o harshness. Heck; I spend at least a couple of days preparing my yeast starters, why not steep some grains while I'm at it, no?

Carafa is something I've used for black IPA and I know that because it is dehusked; it doesn't have that harshness associated with some of the other dark-roasted grains in larger quantities - that's what I'm wanting to know; can I use large amounts of these dark grains to get extreme flavor intensity without also getting harshness? Cold-steeping looks promising...

I'm still cutting my teeth here on darker grains so I am not speaking from experience yet; just want to be sure I am well armed come brewing time for my big stouts and porters. Thanks for the tips, guys!