I tried an experiment today.

My experiment was to see how much different I could make two beers from the exact same mash!

I had some ingredients that needed used up and figured I could get a 10 gallon batch at 1.056 OG out of it.

I had 1 ounce of East Kent Goldings, 1 ounce of Willamette, and 3 ounces of fuggles.

I mashed a 10 gallon batch, with the all of the grains I had left, as follows.
Maris Otter 81.3%  18.78 lbs
Crystal 120L 9.8%  2.26 lbs.
Crystal 40L 6.6%  1.52 lbs.
Victory Malt 2.3%  .54 lbs.

I mashed at 153F, to get a light to medium body.

I split it into two 5 gallon batches. 

I decided that a Belgian Saison and an English Pale Ale would be very different beers and would be doable with the ingredients that I had left.

Batch #1
Hopped with East Kent Goldings 1 ounce 60 minutes and Willamette .25 ounce at 60 minutes, with .5 ounce at 30 minues and .25 at 0 minutes).  Used Lallemand Belle Saison dry yeast.  I also added 3/4 teaspoon of Gypsum to the boil on this one.

Batch #2
Hopped with all Fuggles (2 ounces at 60 minutes, .5 ounce at 30 minutes and .5 ounce at 0 minutes) and used Lallemand Nottingham Ale dry yeast.  I didn't have enough Gypsum left, or I'd have used it in this one too.

I hopped them differently, because I didn't want Willamette in the English Pale Ale.  I frequently do all fuggles english beers, because it is a style that I like and a hop that I like.  I know it's out of style, but I'm getting old, and I can do what I want. 

I'm happy because I've got 10 gallons of beer in the fermenters.  I'm also happy because I bottled 5 gallons of English ESB today too. 

I'm sad, because I now have no grains and no hops.  It's time to start putting my shopping list together for my next series of brews!  Back to planning.

It will be interesting to taste these two beers side by side.  Even though the SRM is the same on them, I suspect the Saison will look darker, because it will be cloudy from the yeast.  They may look similar, but they probably won't look identical and they will definitely taste vastly different.

I'll let you know how they turn out.

I forgot to ask.  Have you tried an experiment, and what did you try and what were you trying to learn?

I am trying to understand yeasts and how they affect the flavor.  It probably would have been more valid, if I had done everything else identical.  Still, I think I'll learn a lot about the yeasts that I've tried.

Maybe next time I'll make two identical beers, except for the yeast.

Our club just did a SMaSH experiment with everything held constant except the single hop.  Very insightful to smell and taste that difference. 

Seven hops were used. 

Mosaic and Nelson Sauvin were the two faves. 

Hey guys! I wish I could do great experiments too. Recently I have tried to make a Kriek beer that I have found on the site however the ingredients I bought were not pretty good and I felt too much acid. What should I do if that happens?

Scott Ickes said:

I forgot to ask.  Have you tried an experiment, and what did you try and what were you trying to learn?

I am trying to understand yeasts and how they affect the flavor.  It probably would have been more valid, if I had done everything else identical.  Still, I think I'll learn a lot about the yeasts that I've tried.

Maybe next time I'll make two identical beers, except for the yeast.

Click to expand...

I've tried quite a few experiments.
Grain on hand like you did, additions, 10 gallons and split it in half and use different yeasts, fermenting temp, low pitch rate, parti-gyle.
I try all kinds of stuff with varying results.

Keeps things fun and you learn a bit.

Scott Ickes said:

My experiment was to see how much different I could make two beers from the exact same mash!

I had some ingredients that needed used up and figured I could get a 10 gallon batch at 1.056 OG out of it.

I had 1 ounce of East Kent Goldings, 1 ounce of Willamette, and 3 ounces of fuggles.

I mashed a 10 gallon batch, with the all of the grains I had left, as follows.
Maris Otter 81.3%  18.78 lbs
Crystal 120L 9.8%  2.26 lbs.
Crystal 40L 6.6%  1.52 lbs.
Victory Malt 2.3%  .54 lbs.

I mashed at 153F, to get a light to medium body.

I split it into two 5 gallon batches. 

I decided that a Belgian Saison and an English Pale Ale would be very different beers and would be doable with the ingredients that I had left.

Batch #1
Hopped with East Kent Goldings 1 ounce 60 minutes and Willamette .25 ounce at 60 minutes, with .5 ounce at 30 minues and .25 at 0 minutes).  Used Lallemand Belle Saison dry yeast.  I also added 3/4 teaspoon of Gypsum to the boil on this one.

Batch #2
Hopped with all Fuggles (2 ounces at 60 minutes, .5 ounce at 30 minutes and .5 ounce at 0 minutes) and used Lallemand Nottingham Ale dry yeast.  I didn't have enough Gypsum left, or I'd have used it in this one too.

I hopped them differently, because I didn't want Willamette in the English Pale Ale.  I frequently do all fuggles english beers, because it is a style that I like and a hop that I like.  I know it's out of style, but I'm getting old, and I can do what I want. 

I'm happy because I've got 10 gallons of beer in the fermenters.  I'm also happy because I bottled 5 gallons of English ESB today too. 

I'm sad, because I now have no grains and no hops.  It's time to start putting my shopping list together for my next series of brews!  Back to planning.

It will be interesting to taste these two beers side by side.  Even though the SRM is the same on them, I suspect the Saison will look darker, because it will be cloudy from the yeast.  They may look similar, but they probably won't look identical and they will definitely taste vastly different.

I'll let you know how they turn out.

Click to expand...

How come you think ESBs are out of style?  Are they?  That is one of my favorite styles and continues to elude me.  I'm constantly working and re-working my esb recipes and processes just in an effort to get it right.  It seems like I can come close to pretty much any other style I shoot for but those malty well-balanced english ales have a mystery about them that keep me brewing!

Let me rephrase that.  I live on the U.S. west coast and this is American IPA country.  My local brew club had a booth at a brewfest.  There were about 80 brewpubs represented, and I'd bet that there were over 100 American IPA's.  Everything was highly hopped with Cascade and similar.

I used to love the highly hopped American IPA's, but they've lost my interest due to overload.  There was not even one English style beer at that brewfest!!  So when I say "out of style", I'm talking locally.

I personally have developed a liking to English Style beers, with the more earthy, woody types of hopping and the slightly lower levels of hopping, compared to American counterparts.

What I've found when trying to make English style beers, is to cut back or eliminate crystal malts and add in one or more of the following: Honey Malt, Victory Malt or Biscuit Malt.  You get a more bready flavor that goes well with the earthy hops.  I also love Maris Otter.  We have a 2-row Pale Malt available to us called Northwest Pale that is very similar to Maris Otter.  I use that sometimes to change things up.

The Honey, Victory or Biscuit tends to give me more maltiness.  I do use crystal sometimes for color and some sweetness.  I try not to use too much though, because it tends to give a thinner mouthfeel.  I will mash at about 154F, instead of 152F, when I'm not using crystal, so that I get more body, some extra residual sweetness and more mouthfeel.  Seems maltier that way

Scott that sounds like fun.  I am just getting to a point in home brewing that I am wanting to start experimenting.  Look forward to hear how the two batches turned out.

There seems to be too many variables to give much credit to results unless your're a fairly experienced brewer. In which case I could only imagine trivial tidbits would already be fairly common knowledge.

I mainly try recipes with different ingredients and try to take notes of flavors added at this point.

I've run hip experiments int he past of the hops used, so I understand their flavors quite well.  I want to see the differences in the yeast.  Since the base wort is identical and the hops are well understood by me, the only variable for me is the yeast.  I've used a lot of different english yeasts, but haven't tried the nottingham dry yet.  I'll be able to evaluate it compared to the other english that I usually use, which are wyeast 1028 and 1728.  I actually have some harvested 1028 and 1728 in the fridge, but decided not to use them.

Mary said:

Hey guys! I wish I could do great experiments too. Recently I have tried to make a Kriek beer that I have found on the site however the ingredients I bought were not pretty good and I felt too much acid. What should I do if that happens?

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My first thought is to brew again, without the souring flora. MAybe just a gallon or two. Then blend the two to your taste. You'll find that it won't take much to blend, but the souring flora will eventually consume any new dextrines and carbonate the bottle.

The other answer is to just age it. Sours go through a lot of phases and change drastically, in the process. A real Kriek might be a blend of one and three year old batches.

brewfun said:

Mary said:

Hey guys! I wish I could do great experiments too. Recently I have tried to make a Kriek beer that I have found on the site however the ingredients I bought were not pretty good and I felt too much acid. What should I do if that happens?

Click to expand...

My first thought is to brew again, without the souring flora. MAybe just a gallon or two. Then blend the two to your taste. You'll find that it won't take much to blend, but the souring flora will eventually consume any new dextrines and carbonate the bottle.

The other answer is to just age it. Sours go through a lot of phases and change drastically, in the process. A real Kriek might be a blend of one and three year old batches.

Click to expand...

+1 on waiting.

The cranberry/pomegranate amber ale that I have listed below as "drinking" was very tart (to the point of mouthpuckering) and not an easy beer to drink when it was young.  In a brewing competition it had an overall score of 31 and was noted as a bitter tartness, especially in the finish.  Two judges said it was fruity, but not a really pleasant fruitiness.  The third judge said it had no fruit flavor.

That beer is now 4 months old and has improved greatly!  It's no longer bitter, and the tartness is now pleasant.  It tastes malty and full bodied now.  It originally tasted medium bodied.  It is now a lot closer to what I was shooting for.  I'm going to save a six pack of it for future competitions and see how it does with age on it.

I've gotten to the point that I now schedule the aging time on some of my beers as part of the process, because I know they'll be better later.  I'm still weak though, like most of us and can't resist cracking open a beer before it's ready, just out of curiousity.

Mostly my experiments have been mistakes that I spin as an experiment.  Like the DIPA that fermented 3 days at 68 then temp control failed and the next day in the high 80's.  Super clean and no off flavors or fusel alcohol.  It was an awesome beer.

Another was when I went off to coffee and had my 16 yr old son weigh out base grains for my first stout.  Kind of looked like a lot but milled and added the dark grains.  Sure did look like a lot for a 5% beer.  Turns out is was about 20lbs.  Went with it and make an incredible oatmeal imperial stout that was still great a year later.

I have also make two beers from the same mash by adding steeped dark grains to the same base wort and make a porter and IPA at the same time.  I have also used final runniungs to make a wild yeast beer.  That never worked.  My wild yeast are made of stinky cheese.

Cheers!

jomebrew said:

Mostly my experiments have been mistakes that I spin as an experiment.  Like the DIPA that fermented 3 days at 68 then temp control failed and the next day in the high 80's.  Super clean and no off flavors or fusel alcohol.  It was an awesome beer.

Another was when I went off to coffee and had my 16 yr old son weigh out base grains for my first stout.  Kind of looked like a lot but milled and added the dark grains.  Sure did look like a lot for a 5% beer.  Turns out is was about 20lbs.  Went with it and make an incredible oatmeal imperial stout that was still great a year later.

I have also make two bees from the same mash by adding steeped dark grains to the same base wort and make a porter and IPA at the same time.  I have also used final runniungs to make a wild yeast beer.  That never worked.  My wild yeast are made of stinky cheese.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

It's funny you say this about too much grain.  My Cranberry/Pomegranate happened by accident too.  My nephew (34 year old chemist of all things) was measuring out the water.  I stirred in the grains and realized the mash was way too thin!  After a short discussion, we realized he was measuring out two quarts at a time and thought they were one quarts each.  I quickly measured out a duplicate batch of grains and mashed it in.  I was only low by 1F on the mash.  We made a 10 gallon batch.  We had set out to make a ginger spice Amber.  While that was boiling, I formulated another recipe on Beersmith for the Pomegranate/Cranberry, since I had two bottles of the juice on hand.  It was an accidently batch that turned out quite well in the end.