Beersmith and Actual Efficiency Question

I have a question of BS2 Brewhouse Measured Efficiency...
I have made two Maibocks and have been pretty spot on for both OG and FG but my brewhouse efficiency
doesn't seem to be higher than 69-73% but is over 97% on another..

Maibock 1 - Est OG 1.080  Measured OG 1.074
              Est FG  1.018  Measured FG  1.015
              Est ABV 8.2  Measured ABV 7.8
              Est. Efficiency 75%  Actual 69.8%

Maibock 2 - Est OG  1.081  Measured OG  1.079
              Est FG  1.024    Fermenting
              Est ABV 7.6%  Fermenting
              Est. Efficiency 75%  Actual 73.4

But then I have another standard lager with the following readings.
              Est OG 1.056  Measured OG 1.064
              Est FG  1.013  Measured FG  1.012
              Est. ABV 5.7%  Measured ABV 6.8%
              Est. Efficiency 75%  Actual 97.4

I'm wondinger if I have something set wrong in BS2 

You could export and post the 3 recipe files (.bsmx). that would be a quick way to look at it.

+1 to posting files.  Much easier to diagnose.  But you've got three very different results here, rather than a consistent trend that would point to a mucked-up setting.

Assuming your hydrometer is accurate, you were close on bock 2, but low and high on the others by 6-8 points.  And given that bock 2 is still fermenting, you seem to have been closest on the last one.  (I'm guessing there.)

The variable with the most impact is water volumes:  pre-boil volume, batch volume, dead space in MLT and boiler, etc. 

Gravity is a measure of concentration, so the volume of liquid is critical to avoid over-dilution or hyper-concentration of whatever sugars you converted and extracted. 

If you are not already extremely accurate (and anal) about the volumes at each stage, then I'd recommend spending time on that on your next brew.  Before the next brew, you could re-measure the dead spaces and check your measuring dowel to ensure everything is correct. 

If you are not already extremely accurate (and anal) about the volumes at each stage, then I'd recommend spending time on that on your next brew. 

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Thank you all for your input. 
I'm not sure but you may have something there MaltLicker..  Maintaining a consistent temp during mashing is one of my biggest problems.  I am always having to add a little more water to maintain the proper temp for the mash time, so I don't know exactly how much water at each step....  I am including the recipe where the Brewhouse Efficiency was lowest since the other had a low efficiency, but not as bad as this, is still in the fermenter.  The estimated efficiency was 82.5% and I ended up with 69.8%.
It came out great but I would love to raise the efficiency.. 
p.s.  Forgot to enter the 2ne decoction in my notes.

It's tough to find differences with only 1 recipe file but,

Are you confusing mash eff with Measured Effciency?

The 82.5% is Est Mash Eff and the 69.8% is Measured Efficiency, 2 totally different things.

No, I understand estimated efficiency @ 82.5%.
I'm having problems with measured efficiency @ 69.8% and why it's not higher...

And, if it will help, here is the 2nd Maibock ...  Measured efficiency 73.4%

Your Measured Mash Eff was 4% higher on the 2nd recipe posted.  The bottling volume was also slightly different.

Do you understand how Mash efficiency being different by %4 could make the overall efficiency different by %4?

Aa near as I can tell, you're using the program correctly. Your nominal total efficiency is 79%.

I suggest that in your equipment profile, you set loss to trub at 0, adding the amount to the batch size. Then add the trub loss to the fermenter loss field. There is a known math error that ups expected mash efficiency to keep the OG the same, instead of diluting the OG for the added trub volume.

When I did this, the targets and actuals got closer. M1 was 76.7 and M2 was 80.8 I averaged the two at ~79% efficiency. That's a respectable number.

They're still off by a bit, which may have a lot to do with the temperatures you targeted, a very thin mash and not tracking pH. I only saw BeerSmith defaults in those fields. However, the amount off only accounts for 0.25% abv, so is well within any reasonable tolerances.

One stop-gap measure, until you get the consistency you want, is to intentionally under-estimate your efficiency so your specific gravity at the end of the boil is higher than your targeted OG. Then, measure your end-of-boil SG and add water to adjust it to the desired OG.

Once you can consistently hit a targeted (higher) gravity at the end of your boil, you can change your target to hit the desired OG without dilution.

texasdan said:

If you are not already extremely accurate (and anal) about the volumes at each stage, then I'd recommend spending time on that on your next brew. 

Click to expand...

...........so I don't know exactly how much water at each step.... 

Click to expand...

If you want to focus on efficiency and know that it's accurate, you'll have to know the water volumes.  The difference between Estimated EFF% and Measured EFF% is the former is BS2's estimate based on the water volumes you told it you were going to use, and the latter is the actual brew-day result based on the amounts you actually measured, both inputs and outputs. 

But ultimately, you cannot taste efficiency, but you can "taste" hitting the body and general beer style you wanted to make by hitting mash temp, OG, and FG more reliably. 

If your EFF% is above 70%, I personally would focus on hitting the volumes at the estimated OG and "dialing that in" to a point or two.  That will create the beer you wanted more so than raising your efficiency to 82% (or whatever).  Higher efficiency will come naturally when you start tinkering with the crush, lautering slowly, mashing out and lautering at 168F the whole time, etc. 

Thank you all for your great responses...
It looks like I will need to give some serious attention to my water volumes and maintaining consistent mash temps...
Something I find very difficult to do stovetop in a stainless pot. 
Since I don't have a viable way to keep consistent temps it looks like I am going to have to spring for a proper mash tun..
Thanks again for all the feedback..

texasdan said:

Something I find very difficult to do stovetop in a stainless pot. 

Click to expand...

If you are partial-mashing in a pot, you can put it in the warm oven.  Just remove one rack, and lower the other rack to the lowest rack setting. 

After getting the mash to the temp you want, and preheating the oven to Warm, use an oven thermometer to keep the oven temp close to your mash temp. 

It should be good enough to get the mash profile you want. 

Good idea but didn't work for me...
The 22 qt pot is too high to fit in the oven.....
I even tried heating towels in the microwave but they don't retain the heat long enough.