Mash temperature off-kilter

[Djehuty]

Yesterday I brewed my second all-grain beer, and I had the same problem as with the first: the mash didn't get up to the right temperature.  I have everything set up properly in BeerSmith, including the weight of my mash tun, and I've checked the box for adjusting the temperature to the brewing equipment.  It said to add 14 quarts of water at 170 degrees (well, 169.6), which I did.  Instead of going up to 154 degrees, the mash only reached 149.  I added some boiling water and stirred, and it dropped a degree.  I added more boiling water and stirred more, and it just held steady.  Curious, I began poking the thermometer probe in to various depths in different areas, and found that 149 degrees held from the bottom of the mash tun up to the top two inches (or a bit less) of the mash, then it rose sharply from there to reach 160 degrees just below the water level.  I'm not sure quite what to make of that.  I just closed the lid and walked away at that point.

How do I reach that 154-degree target?  Is there some trick or setting that I'm missing?

 

[MaltLicker]

Under Mash Profiles, do you have Grain Temp and Mash Tun Temp set for actual temps?

Are you adding water to grain, or grain to water? 

Perhaps try filling MLT with hotter than needed strike water, and let it drop to the 170F point, then add grain. 

Stir to mix it in well.  Have both some boiling water and some ice cubes ready for adjustments.  Once you find the weak link, you'll get closer each time. 

 

[Djehuty]

I forgot about setting the grain and mash tun temperatures, but they default to 72, and it was a bit warmer than that.  So if anything, the grain should've been too hot, rather than not hot enough.

I was adding water to grain -- I'll have to try your suggestion.  Thanks!

 

[the lizard king]

I have been having the same problems myslef, mabye calibrate your therm, and see if its off. I just found the grain and tun temp thing in bs, so I am going to adjust it, my tun stays in the garage at an ambient of around 65 or so give or tak and my grain is in a bucket in the basement and stays around 60ish ambient. Maybe that will help me. I also add water to grain, if you could post your findings when doing it the other way adding grain to water and let us know. I would like to find out myslef. Thanks

 

[SkyFlyer]

After spending some time in another post about my too high mash in temps, here are a few things that I will be paying attention to or trying.
Of course, set the temp for the grains and the mash tun for each brew.
At the moment I do not add hot water to the tun, so I do not check the box for equipment in mash profile.
I changed BeerSmith to show quarts instead of gallons in my mash profile.
I was confused with the water/grain ratio of 0.25 and numbers similar.
I could not figure out what that was.  Since I had BeerSmith mash profile set to gals, the 0.25 (0.25 = 1qt) actually means I had a 1:1 ratio and that is low.  Should be 1.25:1 or higher.
No wonder my water for my mash in was too high.  Consistenly 4-8*F higher than what I wanted.
So, getting the water/grain ratio correct should help a lot.
I have not tried adding grains to water yet. 
I will continue adding water to grains and try my mash in with the adjusted temps.
I too seem to have various temps in my mash.  I have 3 floating thermometers and they all seem to be a different amount.
I'll keep trying adding water to grains for a while.  After my next batch, I'll post some comments on how it went.

 

[MaltLicker]

I have 3 floating thermometers and they all seem to be a different amount.

A man with one watch knows the time; a man with two watches is never sure. 

 

[dharalson]

Go to the Recipe View of the last beer you brewed.
In the Mash Profileetails change the Mash in Step Temperature to the temperature you read after your first mash in.
Now go back to the Equipmentetails and play with the Mash Tun Weight and Mash Tun Specific Heat numbers until program provided Mash in temperature matches your infusion temperature.  This is a calibration of YOUR Equipment.  This should fix the problem going forward.

Record the temperatures and quantities closely in the next brew.  Re-Calibrate your equipment as required.  You should reach an equilibrium point in a couple of brew sessions.

All the best, David

 

[Maine Homebrewer]

...149 degrees held from the bottom of the mash tun up to the top two inches (or a bit less) of the mash, then it rose sharply from there to reach 160 degrees just below the water level.  I'm not sure quite what to make of that.

That's easy.  The hot water that you added stayed on the top because when you mixed it in you didn't pull from the bottom.  Mixing mash is difficult, but if you don't mix it well there can be variations in temperature.
Another thing to consider is that when you mix vigorously you add air which cools things down.  It's best to mix only as much as necessary.

I was adding water to grain

I find that when I add water to grain I end up with pockets of dry grain.
I've tried adding water to grain, alternating the two, and adding grain to water. 
I settled on the last.

 

[SkyFlyer]

Maltlicker ....
Can I pick your brain a bit about your comments on calibration.
Based on your suggestion, I go to Mash In detail and set my temp to 148* which is what I got after adding water.
I wanted it to be 152*.
So, I now go to equipment and play with specific heat numbers.
My mash tun is plastic, but I had tried most of the different settings over time.
So, say I change it to plastic again (0.300).
I press OK and now what?  Should I see the Mash In temp change a little one way or the other based on specific heat numbers?
It didn't change at all.
Is that what I am supposed to see?  I can change specific heat from 0.1 to 0.9 and nothing changes in the mash profile.
What am I missing?  What am I not doing right?  Do I need to save or close the recipe and then come back to it?
I'm not explaining my question very well!
Anyway, see if you can help me through this.
Thanks ...

 

[SOGOAK]

A buddy in my club was raving about this and said he used it in his winning saison.  I will have to give it a go soon.

 

[MaltLicker]

Based on your suggestion, I go to Mash In detail and set my temp to 148* which is what I got after adding water.  I wanted it to be 152*.
I press OK and now what?  Should I see the Mash In temp change a little one way or the other based on specific heat numbers?
It didn't change at all.
Is that what I am supposed to see?  I can change specific heat from 0.1 to 0.9 and nothing changes in the mash profile.

SF - I just went into my last recipe and changed the MLT material to several different things, and the strike temp changed each time.  My personal UNscientific opinion is that the default specific heat settings are probably fine, and your BSmith install is hosed somehow and not changing those affected strike temp numbers the way it should.

Once you rule that out, or confirm and fix it, I would try adding grains to water - it mixes much faster and better, and if you're consistently ending up cooler than desired, perhaps it's taking too long to mix in water to grains and you're losing heat while mixing?  Also, adding hotter water first preheats the MLT, so when it reaches the prescribed strike temp, you know you've eliminated the variable of the MLT not being the temp you entered in BSmith - the MLT and the water are at the temp called for.

 

[SkyFlyer]

Here is what I just did.
I think similar to ML just did.
I went to my equipment details and changed the specific heat to to 0.9.
I know that is high, but I am trying to determine if BS is working or not.
Where should I see the changes?
I'm thinking I should see the temp change in the Profile Mash In step with the volume and temp of water in the description column.
Is that where I should see a change?
That temp should change, right?
It is not.
I also changed the specific heat to 0.1 and still nothing.
I just must not be looking in the right place ...
Or I am just gone crazy or something worse!
Or indeed my BS is hosed.
Thanks for the help ...
Bob
Perhaps I should reload?

 

[ghwren]

Something like this grout mixer works great for a dough in:
http://www.brockwhite.com/pages/item_image_popup.cfm?ITEM_ID=4191&FILE_ID=6947
Your local big box carries various versions of this tool. Small batches could probably use a paint mixer.
Mix it well, careful with any temp probes, check temps, leave it alone, and have a beer while you mash.
The same drill that powers my grain mill runs a version of one of these.

 

[MaltLicker]

Attached are two screen shots of plastic and stainless.  Open the Equipment dialog box, pick one, and then close it.

It should change the strike temps.  If not, system appears hosed.  Pick actual equipment choices and not random numbers; maybe "random" is not functional outside a logical range.  It might kick out > 0.300.  

 

[SkyFlyer]

ML ...
Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

I've done that again.  Still no change on strike temp in my profile.
I tried the 0.300 and the 0.092 on the specific heat.
I closed the equipment dialog and checked the strike temp.
My fear is that I have something else wrong or not set correctly or whatever.
Maybe a check box that is set or not set.
I tried it in several different recipes.
There is a lot I don't know about BeerSmith.
Then again, it could be the program.  I just reinstalled in a new directory a month or so ago, per Brad Smith's suggestion.
I was getting some sort of error message then.
Perhaps it is time to reload again.
I don't know.
What would I do, just uninstall and reinstall?
Perhaps Brad would have some input on this?

I appreciate any help in this matter ...
Thanks

 

[dharalson]

Djehuty

I know its been a long time, but make sure that on the Main Recipe window you have the ADJUST TEMPERATURE FOR EQUIPMENT box checked.

David

 

[robininski]

It (the temperatures ) will change. The equipment change will not change for a recipe unless you do it. Another words after you make the readjustments to the equipment profile you'll have to re-inter that profile to your recipe.