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Brewing Topics => Brewing Discussion => Topic started by: Cuzzin_T on September 22, 2017, 02:54:12 PM

Title: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Cuzzin_T on September 22, 2017, 02:54:12 PM
I'm relatively new to brewing and am having an issue with my APA's and IPA's coming out with almost the same taste even though the recipes are different, both in grains and hops.  The hop flavor even seems to be just straight up missing.  They also have a fruity taste to them as well.

Anything advise is very much appreciate


R.O. Water filtration system
3x 15g boil pot, mash tun, and Chilling pot
Gravity system
10-12g batches
6.5g glass carboy(s)
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Ck27 on September 22, 2017, 05:44:52 PM
I'm relatively new to brewing and am having an issue with my APA's and IPA's coming out with almost the same taste even though the recipes are different, both in grains and hops.  The hop flavor even seems to be just straight up missing.  They also have a fruity taste to them as well.

Anything advise is very much appreciate


R.O. Water filtration system
3x 15g boil pot, mash tun, and Chilling pot
Gravity system
10-12g batches
6.5g glass carboy(s)

What hops and can you tell me what temperature you are mashing at and are you using the same yeast for all your brews. Also are you adding minerals to your RO water I'd not that's why they taste off and similar yeast needs to have good water or it won't make good beer.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Cuzzin_T on September 23, 2017, 10:29:39 AM
I am not adding any minerals.  Mash temp is 158, using chinook and centennial hops.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Ck27 on September 23, 2017, 11:00:19 AM
I am not adding any minerals.  Mash temp is 158, using chinook and centennial hops.

I'm fairly sure your problem is your water RO is 100% mineral free and is likely messing up your beer. You need to treat it and add minerals back, use this to calculate what you need to add for the styles you brew https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Cuzzin_T on September 23, 2017, 12:05:37 PM
I am not adding any minerals.  Mash temp is 158, using chinook and centennial hops.

I'm fairly sure your problem is your water RO is 100% mineral free and is likely messing up your beer. You need to treat it and add minerals back, use this to calculate what you need to add for the styles you brew https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

Thanks for the help.  Looks like I needed to add about 12g of Gypsum and triple my hops, wasn't using nearly enough.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Ck27 on September 23, 2017, 12:24:06 PM
I am not adding any minerals.  Mash temp is 158, using chinook and centennial hops.

I'm fairly sure your problem is your water RO is 100% mineral free and is likely messing up your beer. You need to treat it and add minerals back, use this to calculate what you need to add for the styles you brew https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

Thanks for the help.  Looks like I needed to add about 12g of Gypsum and triple my hops, wasn't using nearly enough.
water can have a massive impact on hop flavor, and yeah you might have been under hopping, I've done that.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Cuzzin_T on September 23, 2017, 02:11:40 PM
I am not adding any minerals.  Mash temp is 158, using chinook and centennial hops.

I'm fairly sure your problem is your water RO is 100% mineral free and is likely messing up your beer. You need to treat it and add minerals back, use this to calculate what you need to add for the styles you brew https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

Thanks for the help.  Looks like I needed to ad about 12g of Gypsum and triple my hops, wasnt using nearly enough.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Maples on October 10, 2017, 10:30:32 AM
In regards to changing water profile and hop quantity, I suggest changing one variable at a time from least difficult to change, to most difficult. Changing many things at once could cover up what the real issue was.

 I humbly suggest that you start by adding more hops, perhaps use a recipe calculator to get an idea where your IBU's are at.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: Ck27 on October 10, 2017, 10:38:41 AM
In regards to changing water profile and hop quantity, I suggest changing one variable at a time from least difficult to change, to most difficult. Changing many things at once could cover up what the real issue was.

 I humbly suggest that you start by adding more hops, perhaps use a recipe calculator to get an idea where your IBU's are at.

We all know it was the water not the hops. So start with water.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: durrettd on October 10, 2017, 02:15:45 PM
RO water is highly variable, especially if it comes from a grocery store's dispenser. Some of them are well maintained and deliver water that approaches distilled-quality water (zero minerals across the board) others are not well maintained and decrease the mineral levels very little. Denny Conn has commented that water from a good RO system is functionally equivalent to distilled: https://brews-bros.xyz/topic/124621-i-cant-brew-in-winter/

Consider getting a water test from Ward Labs:   https://www.google.com/search?q=ward+labs&oq=ward+&aqs=chrome.4.69i57j69i65l2j0l3.8665j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I have to agree with Maples. Try adding some different hops (I like Cascades, Centennial, or maybe Citra) in the last five minutes (or less) of the boil.
Title: Re: Missing hop flavor
Post by: BOB357 on October 10, 2017, 06:00:31 PM
RO water may vary, depending on how the dispenser is maintained, but is generally lacking the necessary minerals needed to produce good beer. Brewing with my tap water is out of the question, so I too use RO water. There are a few on-line brewing water calculators out there and any of them should get you into the ballpark.

The composition of your brewing water affects much more than hop perception. It has an affect on mash conversion, beer clarity and the overall flavor profile just to name a few aspects. Mash pH is very important as well. The water calculators also estimate pH based on the profile of the water you start with and allow you to adjust that as well. Again, most of them will get you into the ballpark.

If there is no reason to believe your tap water isn't good for brewing I'd try it rather than RO water. If it isn't fit to brew with and you don't want to get into water adjustments, spring water is usually a better choice than RO.

Good luck and happy brewing,

Bob