BeerSmith™ Home Brewing Forum

BeerSmith Software => Suggestions => Topic started by: brewn on November 28, 2017, 01:44:16 PM

Title: Style Assistance
Post by: brewn on November 28, 2017, 01:44:16 PM
Would it be possible for the software to aid in determining style based off of your ingredients? For example, when building your recipe there is the ability to move the 3 slide bars to adjust bitterness, color and alcohol to help you get a better idea of the amount of ingredients for what you're wanting to taste. Could the BeerSmith software be updated to allow for when using where you place the slide bars, narrow down the styles that fit closer to the ranges you're slides are in. I know a lot people say I want to make this style and go from there. But what about when you shift into the "I wonder what I can throw together" mode?

Thanks,
Tony
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Oginme on November 28, 2017, 05:25:09 PM
This has been asked many times on many different forums.  The problem is that many different styles can be produced with similar grain bills and having an open-ended search program would be a monumental task and most likely give poor results.  Your best bet is to learn the different styles, how they are produced, their main attributes for flavor and aromas, and any specific ingredients that are inherent in them.  Next, develop your tasting techniques and learn the flavors and aromas you can get from your different ingredients.  Once you have this down, you can pretty much look at a set of ingredients and pick out something close to a style, or at least something that from your understanding of the flavors involved sounds good to you.
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: BOB357 on November 28, 2017, 05:42:28 PM
I don't think most of us would want to brew without injecting some art and imagination into the process. Even if you do, as Oginme said, there are way too many things that overlap between styles. Basically, BJCP style guidelines are made as an aid to judging sanctioned competitions and nothing more. Competitions should reward skill, not who can follow directions the best. God help us when your Xbox or Wii does the brewing for you..
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Kevin58 on November 28, 2017, 08:06:56 PM
Part of the fun and enjoyment of making beer is studying styles and for me, beer history. Then using that knowledge to match a style with the ingredients I can put my hands on.

I am particularly enamored with 1800's English beer styles and I have a hundred or more recipes collected. With the knowledge gained from my research I took an 1800's recipe and the grains I had on hand at the time and made a "kitchen sink" mild.

The more you learn the the better you will get at creating the styles you are after.
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: KellerBrauer on November 29, 2017, 06:15:06 AM
Greetings Brewn - I agree with all the above, especially with Kevin?s comments.  Adding to it, what I like to do, before formulating a recipe, is find some of the Commercial Examples that are available at our local liquor store.  The Commercial Examples are listed in the BJCP guidelines for the style.  Then I like to enjoy an Example while creating the recipe adding ingredients based on what I?m tasting.

I?m very fortunate to live in the Chicago Metro area where our local liquor store is Binnys Beverage Depot.  They have an amazing selection of craft beers to choose from.

I also have many books on various styles and each book has recipes to help guide me along.  I too am fascinated with early 1800 beers as well as pre prohibition beers.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: jomebrew on November 29, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
Have you folks read Michael Jackson's book World Guide to Beer?  I've found his experiences and opinions interesting.  He wrote about English Milds too http://www.beerhunter.com/styles/mild.html. 
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Kevin58 on November 29, 2017, 10:56:47 AM
Have you folks read Michael Jackson's book World Guide to Beer?  I've found his experiences and opinions interesting.  He wrote about English Milds too http://www.beerhunter.com/styles/mild.html.

At the risk of raising the hackles of his many admirers, Michael Jackson got some things wrong. Not on purpose mind you but just by making assumptions and correlations that were sometimes based on inaccurate or partial information. And sometimes it has been other writers who misinterpret Michael's words and created myths that still live on today.

Here is an excellent source for all things Mild. The author of this book has, and continues to scour brewers records on file in municipal archives throughout England. Keep in mind that brewing records in England are not just recipe books but legal documents used for taxation and regulation compliance purposes. So when Ron says Milds were pale, hoppy and strong there is indisputable proof to back him up.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/http://www.lulu.com/shop/ronald-pattinson/mild-plus/paperback/product-22723569.html
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Baron Von MunchKrausen on November 29, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
Not sure how many follow or are interested in beer history, but I find it fascinating.
As Kevin points out, "milds" were not mild in the conventional sense of the term, but used to described the level of aging prevalent in the early 1800's.
In fact English "milds" were typically stronger than their IPA counterparts in that era.
Porter and Stout evolved into something different as well.
Porter got its name from the London dock workers (called Porters) who preferred the brown ale.
Back then a Stout was nothing more than a strong Porter.
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Ck27 on November 29, 2017, 01:49:01 PM
Not sure how many follow or are interested in beer history, but I find it fascinating.
As Kevin points out, "milds" were not mild in the conventional sense of the term, but used to described the level of aging prevalent in the early 1800's.
In fact English "milds" were typically stronger than their IPA counterparts in that era.
Porter and Stout evolved into something different as well.
Porter got its name from the London dock workers (called Porters) who preferred the brown ale.
Back then a Stout was nothing more than a strong Porter.

Yep :). Unfortunately now milds are well mild cause everything's been watered down.
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: KellerBrauer on November 29, 2017, 02:22:21 PM
Not sure how many follow or are interested in beer history, but I find it fascinating.
As Kevin points out, "milds" were not mild in the conventional sense of the term, but used to described the level of aging prevalent in the early 1800's.
In fact English "milds" were typically stronger than their IPA counterparts in that era.
Porter and Stout evolved into something different as well.
Porter got its name from the London dock workers (called Porters) who preferred the brown ale.
Back then a Stout was nothing more than a strong Porter.

Actually, up to the early 1800s a stout was considered a high alcohol beer regardless of the color or malt content.  Could have been a pale ale for that mater; if it was high in ABV, it was a stout.  A Russian imperial stout was simply a very strong beer that was shipped from the UK to Russia.  Low hop but high in ABV.
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Kevin58 on November 30, 2017, 12:12:15 PM


Actually, up to the early 1800s a stout was considered a high alcohol beer regardless of the color or malt content.  Could have been a pale ale for that mater; if it was high in ABV, it was a stout.  A Russian imperial stout was simply a very strong beer that was shipped from the UK to Russia.  Low hop but high in ABV.

You almost have to study linguistics when it comes to English beer. Mild meant young. Stout meant strong. Stale meant aged. Language, like beer styles is ever evolving.
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Baron Von MunchKrausen on November 30, 2017, 12:34:06 PM
Language, like beer styles is ever evolving.

I'm hip to that jive...   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Ck27 on November 30, 2017, 12:40:13 PM
Language, like beer styles is ever evolving.

I'm hip to that jive...   ;D ;D ;D

Bah I don't have te for language and have been studying mostly older beer styles so I'm aware of all the old meaning. But yeah beers have been watered down the meanings have changed etc. Things have gotten quite different
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: brewn on December 01, 2017, 08:56:01 AM
Thanks for all the replies!
I see the point of it being something that would be rather difficult based off of grain bills. It's always easier to see something as a simple fix when you're looking at it from the outside.
Between these replies and ones that I received in a different thread, I am definitely going to look deeper into the more historical beers and the lingo that went along with them.
So with "Mild" really meaning a young beer, after how long is a beer not really considered young? Although I have not done an extensive amount or research, I've not really seen a "timeline" for that type of thing
Title: Re: Style Assistance
Post by: Kevin58 on December 01, 2017, 11:48:11 AM
Thanks for all the replies!
I see the point of it being something that would be rather difficult based off of grain bills. It's always easier to see something as a simple fix when you're looking at it from the outside.
Between these replies and ones that I received in a different thread, I am definitely going to look deeper into the more historical beers and the lingo that went along with them.
So with "Mild" really meaning a young beer, after how long is a beer not really considered young? Although I have not done an extensive amount or research, I've not really seen a "timeline" for that type of thing

Good question. I have never really come across a distinguishing line between Mild and what was called "Keeping" beers. I do know that some keeping beers were aged up to a year. Typically Porters and Stouts. But I have seen no minimum for keeping or a maximum for mild.

Very often it was up to the publicans to decide how to serve it. They would sometimes mix mild and keeping beers for customers.