Freak said:
I keg most everything but, I do a lot of bottling for competitions and, as a result my beer doesn't sit in the bottle for months on end but, it does sit there for several weeks in most cases. With that said, what I do is very simple and, it works well. I just rinse my bottles as good as possible when I drink them, then when I'm ready to use them, I put them in the dishwasher. It gets hot as Hell in the drying cycle. Be sure to use the heated drying cycle. Some dishwashers will allow you to turn that function off. I've never used a single drop of sanitizer and I've never had a bad bottle. It works for me. Give it a try.
This advice just confuses me. Exactly what is the point of suggesting methods that have such wild variability? Sure, the right dishwasher with a sanitizing cycle CAN work. But, not all dishwashers have such a cycle (actually most don't). Why would anyone want to "hope" that each bottle they open doesn't gush or taste sour, every time they open a bottle?
I just don't understand this personal crusade to take the state of homebrewing back to what it was 20 years ago. I'm not quite to "23 years", but maybe 15 counts for something? "Don't use sanitizer", "covering your fermentation vessel is a waste of time". I don't care how much you have spent on equipment---it doesn't make your advice any better.
A brewer with significant experience and knowledge can get away with a lot of things, because they know what matters and what doesn't. That knowledge has been gained by years and year, and hundreds of batches. Some of which didn't turn out how they hoped.
When someone asks a basic question about sanitation like this one, it is NOT being asked by an experienced brewer. It indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of the infection process: where does it come from, how does it develop, what prevents it, what promotes it, etc. That person needs sound repeatable advice, so that they continue to enjoy their beer and advance in the hobby.
If this person takes your advice and makes 3 or 4 bad batches of beer because of an infection, maybe they give up and leave the hobby. What good is that? Better some slightly more conservative advice that ensures they don't have any badly infected batches, so that they continue to enjoy the hobby and learn more about brewing. Ultimately, they will learn through their own experience what they can get away with and what they can't.
The first two batches of beer that I ever made were HORRIBLY infected. The kit that I purchased, came with "B-brite". The instructions in the kit called it a sanitizer. I used it as instructed and the beer tasted fine on bottling day. 3 weeks later is was the most disgusting thing I've ever tasted (outside of milk that has gone bad). I tried again, not knowing what went wrong. I had the exact same result. At that point I did some research, and I learned that B-brite is NOT a sanitizer. I went out and bought a large bottle of iodophor. I made a THIRD batch, using the iodophor to sanitize everything. guess what? The beer was "the best beer I ever had. Mostly because I made it."
Sanitizers work. Sanitizers work reliably.
Sanitizers are cheap and easy to use. Starsan looks expensive at the store, but it lasts a good long time. Even if you make 5 gallons of Starsan every brew session (totally unncessary, by the way), it costs about $0.75 per mixed 5 gallons. If you want it to last longer, mix it with RO/Distilled water and keep it in a container with a lid. It lasts for months when prepared this way. Even with most tap waters it will easily last a month. You can easily make a batch of Starsan for your fermenter on brewday, and then resuse that same batch on bottling day.
I mix 2.5 gallons of StarSan once a month. I use it for every brew during that month. I fill a spray bottle with some of it, and I use that to sanitize fittings, and tools when necessary. Nothing could be easier, except doing nothing at all...which is just plain dumb. Amortizing the cost over several brew sessions is an easy way to
really drive down expense if that is a concern.
To sanitize bottles with StarSan you don't need to fill and soak them. Once they are squeaky clean, dunk each botte in StarSan and let an ounce or two of starsan into each bottle. Swirl to coat the inside, then let it sit for 30 seconds. Then swirl a second time, and drain. Store on a sanitized bottle tree (using spray bottle above). Starsan has no flavor in rinse and drain quantities. So, "don't fear the foam".
If you want cheaper, use Iodophor. Just be sure to let the bottles dry on a bottle tree before filling, and they need to stay wet for a 90 seconds or something like that (read the bottle). I used iodophor for years. it works fine, but its only good for 24 hours (or as long as it has an orange tint). Plus it colors everything it sits in orange. For bottling it works perfect. It's about 1/3rd the cost per gallon of mixed product as StarSan. So, you can make up a 5a gallon batch, soak your bottles in it for a few minutes, and then let them dry. Done.
I still keep Iodophor around, and if I just need a one time use solution for some odd task...I will mix up a batch...specifically because its cheaper per batch. So, if I'm going to pour it down the drain at the end of the day, that's what I use. It requires a slightly longer contact time, it can give an iodine flavor if you don't let it dry, it turns things orange if left for an hour or more, and it only lasts for a day.