I'm trying to create/find a recipe for a more fruity, sweet Saison, but most people seem to want to create a Dupont clone.
From the many I have tried, I have come to the opinion that there really are 2 distinguishable types of Saisons:
1. spicy hops, peppery, super dry, fruitiness is mainly citrusy ///Saison Dupont, Urthel Saisonnière
2. dark fruits (berries), soft, tart, sweet, mild hops but often musky, often medium-bodied ///Fantôme, Vapeur (eg. Pipaix), L'Amalthée
I'm sure there's lots of overlap, but am I the only one to notice this difference?
So my question is: what are the differences in brewing these 2 styles. Really, I'm trying to create something like Fantome, but it doesn't have to be a clone, just have similar fruity/musky characteristics. The following are guesses to where the differences may lie:
I would guess that yeast is the biggest factor:
spicy: WLP565 Belgian Saison I Yeast, Wyeast 3711 French Saison,
fruity: WLP566 Belgian Saison II Yeast, WLP568 Belgian Style Saison Blend, WLP072 French Ale, Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit
Malt:
spicy: low FG, mostly Pilsner Malt
fruity: higher FG, some (~10?) wheat to add body, some Munich to add maltiness
Traditionalists often recommend attaining super low FG for a very dry, spicy beer. That's not what I'm going for. I'd like some fruity sweetness in mine. Does anybody know what the FG is in Fantome beers?
Also, the fruity ones might have other spices, fruit juices, and other additions.
It makes no difference to me what the "traditional" Saison was like. I just want a beer that I enjoy - which means more fruit, less hop sharpness/pepperiness. What do you guys think? Any recipes or suggestions?
My working recipe is currently:
Pilsner, Belgian 10.5# 80% base
Wheat 0.75# 6% >body (high protein), mouthfeel, head retention
Munich 0.75# 6% adds color, maltiness, flavor
Cane Sugar 1# 7% <body, >ABV
(?)Caramel Munich 60L 2oz >body (unfermentables); caramel, roasted flavors
1.70 oz. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 6.00 39.8 60 min.
0.75 oz. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 6.00 0.0 0 min.
1.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
yeast: haven't decided yet, one of the ones listed above?
sugar added last 20 minutes of boil
fermentation: 3 weeks primary, starting at 68F, then gradually elevating to ~80F (as per Jamil)
maturation: 2 weeks
carbonation: 3-3.5vol
mashed at 146F for 90m (lower temp, more time than usual)
OG: 1.063
FG: 1.008
From the many I have tried, I have come to the opinion that there really are 2 distinguishable types of Saisons:
1. spicy hops, peppery, super dry, fruitiness is mainly citrusy ///Saison Dupont, Urthel Saisonnière
2. dark fruits (berries), soft, tart, sweet, mild hops but often musky, often medium-bodied ///Fantôme, Vapeur (eg. Pipaix), L'Amalthée
I'm sure there's lots of overlap, but am I the only one to notice this difference?
So my question is: what are the differences in brewing these 2 styles. Really, I'm trying to create something like Fantome, but it doesn't have to be a clone, just have similar fruity/musky characteristics. The following are guesses to where the differences may lie:
I would guess that yeast is the biggest factor:
spicy: WLP565 Belgian Saison I Yeast, Wyeast 3711 French Saison,
fruity: WLP566 Belgian Saison II Yeast, WLP568 Belgian Style Saison Blend, WLP072 French Ale, Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit
Malt:
spicy: low FG, mostly Pilsner Malt
fruity: higher FG, some (~10?) wheat to add body, some Munich to add maltiness
Traditionalists often recommend attaining super low FG for a very dry, spicy beer. That's not what I'm going for. I'd like some fruity sweetness in mine. Does anybody know what the FG is in Fantome beers?
Also, the fruity ones might have other spices, fruit juices, and other additions.
It makes no difference to me what the "traditional" Saison was like. I just want a beer that I enjoy - which means more fruit, less hop sharpness/pepperiness. What do you guys think? Any recipes or suggestions?
My working recipe is currently:
Pilsner, Belgian 10.5# 80% base
Wheat 0.75# 6% >body (high protein), mouthfeel, head retention
Munich 0.75# 6% adds color, maltiness, flavor
Cane Sugar 1# 7% <body, >ABV
(?)Caramel Munich 60L 2oz >body (unfermentables); caramel, roasted flavors
1.70 oz. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 6.00 39.8 60 min.
0.75 oz. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 6.00 0.0 0 min.
1.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
yeast: haven't decided yet, one of the ones listed above?
sugar added last 20 minutes of boil
fermentation: 3 weeks primary, starting at 68F, then gradually elevating to ~80F (as per Jamil)
maturation: 2 weeks
carbonation: 3-3.5vol
mashed at 146F for 90m (lower temp, more time than usual)
OG: 1.063
FG: 1.008