Sparge water acidification question

[Strut6569]

I am using Brun Water for my water adjustments.

I am using 100% RO water replacement to make a pilsner.  The sparge acidification does not adjust for the 100% replacement and is using the values from my water report.  Why does it not adjust based on the substitution?  Do I have to do this manually or am I missing something?

Another issue is that my equipment requires that I heat up 7 gallons of water for my sparge, due to losses in the kettle and pump system.  I then transfer 6 gallons to my liquor tank for sparging.  I am told to adjust my sparge water Ph when it is cold.  Do I manually put in the actual water in the kettle to determine the acid needed?

 

[brewfun]

RO sparge water doesn't need to be acidified. No minerals means there's nothing to buffer in the mash. You'd only add the minerals needed for building flavors and even then, I recommend adding the sparge water amounts to the kettle directly.

To answer your second question: When adjusting water, you have to adjust for the full volume you're starting with.

 

[Strut6569]

I would think that to be true for distilled water, but Brun Water shows that RO water does have minerals in it.  It calculates additions of Gypsum and Calcium Chloride to get a final RA of 14.

It also states (on the sparge acidification tab) that the sparge water Ph should be 5.5 and 6.0.  I have not checked the Ph of the RO water, but I would assume it would be above that.

Thanks for your input.  I am new at the water adjustment game and still figuring it out.  Any help is greatly appreciated.

Update:  The RO water has a Ph of 7.2, much higher than what BH2O suggests.

 

[brewfun]

Update:  The RO water has a Ph of 7.2, much higher than what BH2O suggests.

Let's be clear. The pH of the water has nearly nothing to do with the water alkalinity and mineral content or the buffering capacity in the mash.

I would think that to be true for distilled water, but Brun Water shows that RO water does have minerals in it.  It calculates additions of Gypsum and Calcium Chloride to get a final RA of 14.

That's for calcium. That RA level is insignificant for an all malt mash.

Calcium additions for mash enzyme efficiency, yeast nutrient needs and flavor are good. Its presence is reactive with malt constituents and merely make it easier for the grain to hit the pH it wants to under any given circumstances. Minerals are NOT the same as being used to adjust the pH independently. That's NOT the same as acidifying. The question, circumstances and technique you used in the OP were clearly about acidifying. Likely with either phosphoric or lactic acids

In other words, you can't just throw in a bunch of Calcium Sulfate mid mash and expect an immediate change in pH; but you can throw in lactic acid and see a change.

It also states (on the sparge acidification tab) that the sparge water Ph should be 5.5 and 6.0.  I have not checked the Ph of the RO water, but I would assume it would be above that.

It is the current fad...  : It overlooks and oversimplifies the buffering capability of a mash. It's  the trendy johnny fix-all panacea to avoid the dreaded "tannins" homebrewers are currently paranoid about.

Do it if you need to, but don't follow it blindly. That means taking careful measurements of gravity and pH throughout the sparge. I think you'll find the RO water really doesn't shift the pH all that much.

First, use a TDS meter on the RO source. It should be <50 and typically <25. RO water has a residual alkalinity of about 2. There simply aren't enough protons for the water to contribute to the mash to move it much. Adding acid that has nothing to react with simply sours the beer.

Contrast that with my water which has a TDS of 470 and RA of about 140. I treat 310 gallons with 75 to 100ml of Phosphoric to counter the RA, depending on the TDS reading. I get a pH of about 7.3 from this tiny treatment. My mashes settle in at a nice 5.3 to 5.4.

I don't treat my sparge water. But it does sit hot for hours before I get to use it, and that precipitates some carbonate. Not a lot, since the TDS is still about 400. After fly sparging at 170-172 F, and getting as low as 1.8 Plato (1.007) for final runnings, my mash pH seldom goes up more than 0.2 and has never exceeded 0.4.

The important thing is that I had to do some homework to establish a baseline. I believe in doing as little as possible to the ingredients and let them build the wort profile. I just have to give them optimal conditions, but not arbitrarily.

 

[Strut6569]

Thanks Brufun.  It sounds like good advice.

I have been all grain brewing for over 20 years and had it down to a routine and made a lot of good beer.  Then I started using computer programs and playing with water chemistry and not having nearly as much fun! 

I need to not worry so much!

 

[Baron Von MunchKrausen]

Brunwater is actually quite simple when using 100% RO water.
Brunguard says skip the sparge acidification tab altogether. Not needed, as with the water report input tab.
Go right to the mash acidification tab and enter your grain bill.
The majority of work is in the water adjustment tab.
Make sure RO water is selected in the dilution water profile at 100%, select your brew style, then input your water volumes of the mash and the sparge.
Then select your additions to your beer style profile-  typically a bit of calcium chloride and gypsum is all that's needed. These will alter your mash Ph in the mash acidification tab.
If Ph adjustment is needed (rarely), I prefer a bit of acidulated malt (down)  or a bit of pickling lime (up).
The beauty of RO water is you're starting with a known baseline, as long as your TDS is within range. With alkalinity that low, Ph is generally not a concern.