The effects of left over hops during fermentation.

[SFBeerGuy]

If you whirlpool and let rest for 30 mins before transferring to fermenter, you're leaving most hot break behind.  But do what works for you.

Any suggestions for a simple and inexpensive whirlpool setup?  I saw a post earlier this month where someone in here showed a picture of a 'lazy Susan' device to gently stir up the yeast.  Perhaps this would work under the boil pot?

 

[Wastegate]

My "onthecheep" whirl-pooling device is a stainless steel whisk. After the wort is cooled to pitching temps, I use the whisk to both aerate and whirl-pool, then let it set for 20-30 min and transfer it to the primary.

The Lazy Susan would be for rousting the yeast of a big beer. Keeping as much yeast in contact with the beer as possible.

Cheers
Preston

 

[SFBeerGuy]

My "onthecheep" whirl-pooling device is a stainless steel whisk.

Wow!  I didn't think it would be that easy.  I'll have to give that a try with the next brew.  At what temperature do you normally pitch?

 

[Wastegate]

I try to stay in the yeast range +-10deg F. So the long answer is what ever the yeast says.

Cheers
Preston

 

[MaltLicker]

I sanitize my standard 21-inch s/s brewing spoon and leave it in boiler for that last few minutes of boil time to "sterilize" it, inside the chiller.  When I pull the chiller out, I leave the spoon in there and cover up keg.  When I have keg up on the workbench, I uncover, stir like crazy to create the whirlpool, pull spoon, then re-cover for 30 minutes while I'm prepping yeast. 

 

[Berkyjay]

I sanitize my standard 21-inch s/s brewing spoon and leave it in boiler for that last few minutes of boil time to "sterilize" it, inside the chiller.  When I pull the chiller out, I leave the spoon in there and cover up keg.  When I have keg up on the workbench, I uncover, stir like crazy to create the whirlpool, pull spoon, then re-cover for 30 minutes while I'm prepping yeast. 

Brad, we definitely need to start doing this.  It seems like everyone is in agreement on using the whirlpool technique to separate some unwanted material before it goes into the fermenter.  Thanks for all the suggestions fellas.

James

 

[dhaenerbrewer]

Hey Darin, thanks for the offer!  I have two questions for you.  What are your thoughts on using candi syrup in your Belgians?  I make my own and I usually try to be creative in how I make it and it is usually around 15-20% of my recipe.  Also, do you repitch yeast for bottle conditioning?  I've been wanting to dive into this but I feel that I really don't have the know how nor the equipment to pull it off....mainly because I have no way yet to filter my beer.

I love using candi SYRUP ( note SYRUP, not sugar ). According to my sources ( I like to think they are reputable ) most Belgian brewers use syrup and not sugar. The Dark brand of candi syrups is wonderful. I brewed one of my best Belgian Grand Cru's at Bj's using 10 gallons of dark candi syrup in a 30 bbl batch. It was lovely.

As far as the bottle conditioning goes. I do not repitch for bottle conditioning my belgian ales. I always use ( Preston will be cringing right now ) wine or champagne yeast, depending on the beer. It works out wonderfully for me. It takes a little more time, and more yeast than you would think; but I believe it is well worth the wait.
On to the topic of whirlpooling. It is absolutely necessary, and works great when the beer is still hot. I whirlpool with my mash paddle as soon as I shut the flame off on the kettle. Let it settle for 10 minutes and go.

Darin

 

[Berkyjay]

I love using candi SYRUP ( note SYRUP, not sugar ). According to my sources ( I like to think they are reputable ) most Belgian brewers use syrup and not sugar. The Dark brand of candi syrups is wonderful. I brewed one of my best Belgian Grand Cru's at Bj's using 10 gallons of dark candi syrup in a 30 bbl batch. It was lovely.

As far as the bottle conditioning goes. I do not repitch for bottle conditioning my belgian ales. I always use ( Preston will be cringing right now ) wine or champagne yeast, depending on the beer. It works out wonderfully for me. It takes a little more time, and more yeast than you would think; but I believe it is well worth the wait.
On to the topic of whirlpooling. It is absolutely necessary, and works great when the beer is still hot. I whirlpool with my mash paddle as soon as I shut the flame off on the kettle. Let it settle for 10 minutes and go.

Darin

Interesting, I've read that a more neutral yeast is usually used for bottle conditioning.  I guess wine of champagne yeast makes sense in this regard.  Do you do anything to clear your beer of the old yeast?  And how long do you normally wait between pitching the new yeast and bottling?

As for the candi suryp...the commercial brand that I believe you are talking about, that isn't readily available in my area and I found it much too expensive even if it were.  That is why I took to making my own and I have made some pretty good brews with it.  I've actually started flavoring it by boiling it up with various fruits such as cherries and raisins.

James

 

[Wastegate]

As far as the bottle conditioning goes. I do not repitch for bottle conditioning my belgian ales. I always use ( Preston will be cringing right now ) wine or champagne yeast, depending on the beer. It works out wonderfully for me. It takes a little more time, and more yeast than you would think; but I believe it is well worth the wait

O good Lord, Say it isn't so!!! A pro Brewer straying from style! NOOOOooooooo......!

Seriously tho. I have heard on numerous occasions that the practice works. I personally don't practice it because of my own personal preferences. However it is your hobby, do what you want with it. That's what makes it so fun. IMO...

 

[SFBeerGuy]

I sanitize my standard 21-inch s/s brewing spoon and leave it in boiler for that last few minutes of boil time to "sterilize" it, inside the chiller.  When I pull the chiller out, I leave the spoon in there and cover up keg.  When I have keg up on the workbench, I uncover, stir like crazy to create the whirlpool, pull spoon, then re-cover for 30 minutes while I'm prepping yeast. 

Brad, we definitely need to start doing this.

I completely agree.  Would also be nice to have a brewpot with a spigot.

 

[dhaenerbrewer]

http://russianriverbrewing.com/web/bottle/index.html <-- Check this out Preston. This guy makes INCREDIBLE Belgian beers. Helluva nice guy too. Anyhoo. James, I love that you make your own candi sugar. That's awesome; and the infusions you are talking about, sounds incredible. I would love to have a recipe that you use. I would gladly trade you a slant of true belgian trappist yeast. As far as a brewpot with a spigot goes. If you know someone who can weld, just get yourself a 1/2" stainless coupler, an old keg, a 1/2" closed stainless nipple and a 1/2" stainless ball valve and away you go!

As far as the bottle conditioning goes. I will generally rack off the beer from the primary fermenter to a 5 gallon keg and chill it to let the yeast settle out and clear the beer up. I will then pull off as many pints as necessary to get clear beer from the keg. Then I let it warm up for a day. In the meantime I rehydrate the dried champagne or wine yeast in a small amount of wort on a stirplate. I then pitch the yeast into the warmed keg and shake it like crazy and bottle immediately. I want the yeast to be suspended in solution and evenly distributed when I bottle.

Darin

 

[Berkyjay]

http://russianriverbrewing.com/web/bottle/index.html <-- Check this out Preston. This guy makes INCREDIBLE Belgian beers. Helluva nice guy too. Anyhoo. James, I love that you make your own candi sugar. That's awesome; and the infusions you are talking about, sounds incredible. I would love to have a recipe that you use. I would gladly trade you a slant of true belgian trappist yeast. As far as a brewpot with a spigot goes. If you know someone who can weld, just get yourself a 1/2" stainless coupler, an old keg, a 1/2" closed stainless nipple and a 1/2" stainless ball valve and away you go!

As far as the bottle conditioning goes. I will generally rack off the beer from the primary fermenter to a 5 gallon keg and chill it to let the yeast settle out and clear the beer up. I will then pull off as many pints as necessary to get clear beer from the keg. Then I let it warm up for a day. In the meantime I rehydrate the dried champagne or wine yeast in a small amount of wort on a stirplate. I then pitch the yeast into the warmed keg and shake it like crazy and bottle immediately. I want the yeast to be suspended in solution and evenly distributed when I bottle.

Darin

Wow, thanks for that bottling method.  It's kind of along the lines of what I was thinking, but I didn't realize that you would bottle right away....makes sense though. 

As for my candi syrup recipe, I am very loose with my recipes.  I kind of wing it as I am cooking.  But generally I start with 1 -2 pounds of unrefined cane sugar, try to avoid anything that's been processed too much.  Then I mix it with 2-3 cups of water depending on how long I will boil and what viscosity I am looking for.  Add in a teaspoon of a lactic acid.....lemon juice will work and boil it all up.  I generally boil for at least an hour adding small amounts of water along the way.  Make sure you don't boil away too much water or else it will harden too much and become difficult to add into the boil.  As far as adding little twists to the concoction, I will add a handful of raisins or cherries as I boil down the sugar/water solution.  I will even leave the fruit in the syrup and add it into the boil.  I haven't yet boiled long enough to really darken my syrup because I think that requires a few hours of boil time, but I aim to try it soon.

James

 

[Wastegate]

Darin
Wish I could get some of those down here in Houston... I love the bottle log, that's cool!

It is my understanding that the sugar/acid will not invert until it reaches 300F/150C ("Soft Crack", I usually go to "Hard Crack"). Which means all the water would be evaporated away (Don't Add water if it is this hot. You will have an EXPLOSION in the kitchen!). At this point it would be Belgian Candi sugar. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. I will check my books when I get home tonight.

I normally have this pre-made in 1lb zip-lock bags. I then add this to some water and bring it to a boil for 20 min then cool and add it to the beer. Here are some pic's of a Belgian I did with the Aleuminati in 08. http://www.aleuminati.com/forum/topics/1501346:Topic:16588?id=1501346%3ATopic%3A16588&page=4#comments

Cheers
Preston

 

[Berkyjay]

Darin
Wish I could get some of those down here in Houston... I love the bottle log, that's cool!

It is my understanding that the sugar/acid will not invert until it reaches 300F/150C ("Soft Crack", I usually go to "Hard Crack"). Which means all the water would be evaporated away (Don't Add water if it is this hot. You will have an EXPLOSION in the kitchen!). At this point it would be Belgian Candi sugar. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. I will check my books when I get home tonight.

I normally have this pre-made in 1lb zip-lock bags. I then add this to some water and bring it to a boil for 20 min then cool and add it to the beer. Here are some pic's of a Belgian I did with the Aleuminati in 08. http://www.aleuminati.com/forum/topics/1501346:Topic:16588?id=1501346%3ATopic%3A16588&page=4#comments

Cheers
Preston

So to invert sugar all you need is the acid and to bring the solution to boil for about 20-30 min.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_sugar_syrup

I try to stay under the 300F mark because I don't want my sugar to crystallize.  Rather I want to keep it as a syrup which is why I continue to add water throughout.  This allows the sugars to caramelize and darken but still maintain a low viscosity.  From all of my research, this is somewhat closer to what the Trappists use.  The only thing that I am actually missing to be closer to authentic is the beet sugar which is very hard to find in my area.

 

[Wastegate]

Ya, I found it last night also. Looks like I combined the candi and the syrup together...  That just cut some time out of the brewing process!  ;D

Cheers
Preston

 

[Berkyjay]

Darin,

I have a question for you about priming with champagne yeast.  Do you also add a sugar water solution before you pitch?  Or i this step not necessary?

James

 

[dhaenerbrewer]

James,

I use a DME and water solution. About 1/4-1/3 cup per 5 gallons of beer. I boil it with about 1 cup of water, just enough to rehydrate. Cool it, add the yeast and then dump the whole thing in the keg. I forgot to mention that part.

Darin

 

[Berkyjay]

James,

I use a DME and water solution. About 1/4-1/3 cup per 5 gallons of beer. I boil it with about 1 cup of water, just enough to rehydrate. Cool it, add the yeast and then dump the whole thing in the keg. I forgot to mention that part.

Darin

Cool thanks!  I'm gearing up to bottle a Belgian style strong dark so I want to make sure I do this right.  Once the gravity drops below 1.030 I'm going to chill the beer for a few days.  I'm excited to test this method!

 

[Berkyjay]

http://russianriverbrewing.com/web/bottle/index.html <-- Check this out Preston. This guy makes INCREDIBLE Belgian beers. Helluva nice guy too. Anyhoo. James, I love that you make your own candi sugar. That's awesome; and the infusions you are talking about, sounds incredible. I would love to have a recipe that you use. I would gladly trade you a slant of true belgian trappist yeast. As far as a brewpot with a spigot goes. If you know someone who can weld, just get yourself a 1/2" stainless coupler, an old keg, a 1/2" closed stainless nipple and a 1/2" stainless ball valve and away you go!

As far as the bottle conditioning goes. I will generally rack off the beer from the primary fermenter to a 5 gallon keg and chill it to let the yeast settle out and clear the beer up. I will then pull off as many pints as necessary to get clear beer from the keg. Then I let it warm up for a day. In the meantime I rehydrate the dried champagne or wine yeast in a small amount of wort on a stirplate. I then pitch the yeast into the warmed keg and shake it like crazy and bottle immediately. I want the yeast to be suspended in solution and evenly distributed when I bottle.

Darin

So I had a taste of my Belgian Strong bottled with champagne yeast last night.  It's about moderately carbonated after 1 week in the bottle.  It has taken on a slightly sour taste however and the roasty flavor seems to be missing.  I am wondering if this is because of champagne yeast.  My girlfriend actually mentioned that it kind of tasted like champagne.  All in all it still tastes fairly good but it is still very early for this 11% abv beer.  After another week in my house it's going down to the garage for a 3-6 months.

 

[dhaenerbrewer]

Yes, that is definitely the champagne yeast. Give it some time. It will mellow. That beer is too big and bold for that yeast character to take over entirely. I personally like the added complexity it gives. But yes, it does have quite a sour note in the beginning. The first time I did it I thought I did something horribly wrong. But I gave it more time and it really smoothed out nicely. Wine yeast is a lot more mellow, but at 11% alcohol, is a little slow to get going and doesn't always carbonate completely. For me anyways. I find that for the really big beers ( 10% + ) champagne yeast is the way to go. You just have to give it a little extra conditioning time. I would suspect that the roasty flavors aren't necessarily missing, but masked by the pungent champagne yeast. Once it's all done carbonating your beer and falls out, the roasty character should return. Hope all turns out well!

Darin