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Adding frozen peaches to secondary...need advice

Scott Ickes

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I'm brewing a SMaSH Peach Belgian Saison.

10.5 # of Maris Otter
1 oz. of Hallertau (FWH)
.5 oz. of Hallertau (10 minutes)
Lallemand Belle Saison yeast

OG = 1.052
IBU's = 24.3

Questions I have:
I want a noticeable hint of peach aroma and flavor, but not sickenly sweet. 
How much frozen peach in the secondary?
How much will the peaches add to my OG?  I know that technically it isn't adding to the OG, since it's in the secondary, but I'm planning on creating two recipes (one with the peaches and one without), so that I can plan my hop rate accordingly.
Should I increase the hops to account for the additional sugar from the peaches?  I'm assuming yes.

If I were to know what the frozen peaches were adding to my OG, I think I can plan accordingly to get a good balance and not have it overly sweet.

Any assistance would be appreciated.
 
I don't have a ton of experience doing fruit-based or fruit-infused beers (as a general rule, I find them repulsive, but maybe that's mostly because I've not had a very good one), but in the testing I've done primarily with mead, you don't have to worry about a lot of added sugar. If anything, you may have to decrease your hopping rate, for two reasons: for one, you're adding a lot of very fermentable sugars that will add to the ABV, and for another, fruit has a lot of water that will only dilute your true OG. This is probably less of an issue when introducing the fruit to secondary, but given enough time, I suspect you'd get the same result.

I think that any time you introduce fruit into a beer or any other fermented beverage, it's a lot of guesswork. You can approximate the sugar contribution of the fruit (and the dilution factor), but you don't get an analysis sheet with a canned, frozen, or fresh fruit like you do with malt.

Personally, I wouldn't go out of style for hopping, even to account for the fruit addition. The reason you're adding the fruit is to taste, smell, and otherwise get an overall impression fruit; otherwise, what's the point of the expense and trouble? Follow your general sense as a brewer and just treat the fruit as a flavor and aroma ingredient, and don't try to balance (or over-balance) other ingredients against it. If it's a bit out of whack, well, so what? There's always next time...

One tip that I read lately, at least in regard to added sugars, is to add the sugars at high krausen or shortly thereafter. You'll minimize aroma loss, but you'll maximize fermentability. You might try that instead of waiting until secondary. Just a thought...
 
Thank you Sir.  That helps with two questions.  Now, I have to figure out how much.  I've been searching the internet looking for information on how many pounds per gallon people use in beer.  Mostly, it's been more is better with peach, as it is a fruit that's subtle and takes a lot to make much of a change in flavor.  One article suggested 2# per gallon.  I have no desire to put 10# in a 5 gallon batch.  Another article stated that apricot will be close to peach, but has more of an impact in flavor, so less apricot is needed vs. peaches.  I'm still trying to figure out how much to add.
 
I've read somewhere (can't remember where offhand) that 1 lb per gallon is a good generalization.  Start there?
 
jtoots said:
I've read somewhere (can't remember where offhand) that 1 lb per gallon is a good generalization.  Start there?

I read .5 pound per gallon for strong flavored fruits like sour cherries and up to 2 pounds per gallon for weak flavored fruits like peaches.  Quite a broad range, thus my confusion.  I've changed my mind and decided to go with apricots, as they are stronger than peaches, but not as strong as sour cherries.  I'm thinking 4 pounds of apricots at the moment.  If the flavor isn't strong enough, i can always rack it onto more apricots.  However, I can't take it out, once it is in there.
 
That's a good reason to add fruit to primary, at least while fermentation is active. Since you're likely going to be racking to secondary anyway for clarifying, you can make a sensory judgment at that point and adjust going forward. If it's pretty prevalent at that point, it'll probably be just right once you open the bottle. If it's just right, it'll probably be lacking later.

Adding randoms like fruit is pretty touchy-feely stuff; I think you need to ditch the instrumentation and grab the yoke :)

And use the peaches! Peaches are probably my favorite fruit; apricots, the least. Not that that matters to you  ;D
 
I'm reluctant to add fruit to the primary, before there is enough alcohol to inhibit bacteria.  I'd rather put it in the secondary when I have about 6% alcohol.
 
Right, which is why I suggested adding it while fermentation is just past its most active state. By then, the vast majority of the malt-derived sugars have already been converted; it's really just mop-up from that point on. If the yeast that you've inoculated your wort with are active, as well, they're primed and ready to overcome most unwanted invaders. In some respects, I think it's more chancy to put fruit, etc. in secondary, because fermentation is largely arrested at that point.

Bottom line is that I don't think there are any right or wrong answers with what you're attempting to do. Follow your instincts.
 
Wash and freeze them. It will rupture the cell walls allowing more fruit flavor. And brew your own recommends 2 lbs per gallon.
Total wine had an event today and one of the brewer's said they used 1 gallon of blueberry puree in a 20bbl batch. Puree is much more concentrated and goes a lot further than fresh, and is usually pasteurized. Just another thought.
 
Re read your op. Looks like you already planned on using frozen peaches. My bad.
 
Actually, my wife and I were out today shopping and I couldn't find frozen peaches or frozen apricots.  I've got 4 pounds of frozen blueberries.
 
Brewmex41 said:
Re read your op. Looks like you already planned on using frozen peaches. My bad.

Yes, but store bought frozen fruit is flash frozen. This minimizes the cell wall rupturing.  But, you can let it thaw, and the refreeze it still in the bag for the same effect.

If it were me, I'd use fruit puree from the lhbs. I'd also use less puree than necessary and make final adjustment in the keg with fruit favor extract.
 
Look into campden tablets. That's what you use in wine making to treat the fruit before fermenting it. Since the fruit is not going to be boiled, it could add an infection. Campden tablets should minimize the risk.
 
BYO concurs on the Campden tablets.

http://byo.com/pilsner/item/679-fruit-brew-part-2-techniques

One way to minimize the risk of contamination from fresh fruits is to take a page from the winemakers’ handbook and sterilize the fruit with sulfur dioxide. Winemakers do not sterilize their “wort” by boiling it. They sterilize their “must” by treating it with SO2 (often in the form of Campden tablets). To sterilize a “mini-must,” mush your fruit into a slurry in a sanitized bucket. Add enough water so that it’s basically a thick liquid. Add one crushed Campden tablet for every gallon of your “mini-must” and let sit, loosely covered, overnight. During this time the SO2 will kill any microorganism in the “mini-must,” then diffuse away. The SO2 also acts as an antioxidant, preventing browning of the fruit. The next day, add the now-sanitized “mini-must” to your fermenter.
 
I have some Camden tablets.  I use them when I make fruit wines.  I made banana wine (with golden raisins) and a plum wine last year.  I think they need like 24 hours of time before adding to the beer.

I've also read that frozen fruit added to the secondary is not an issue, because of the alcohol content already present.
 
I've also read that frozen fruit added to the secondary is not an issue, because of the alcohol content already present.

I've read that too. I also tried adding frozen blueberries into the secondary one time, like ten years ago. Don't remember if I used Campden tablets or not. Don't think I did. It was a one gallon experiment anyway. Well, the first couple bottles came out great. Wonderful, actually. The color (unlike commercial blueberry ales I have tried, it picked up quite a bit of blue color, purple now that I think about it, from the fruit) and flavor was really nice. But I only got to drink a couple. The rest were gushers and ended up being dumped. Can't know for sure if the infection was because of the blueberries or something else.

Personally I would err on the side of caution and use Campden tablets. It certainly won't harm anything, and just might save the batch.
 
Maine Homebrewer said:
I've also read that frozen fruit added to the secondary is not an issue, because of the alcohol content already present.

I've read that too. I also tried adding frozen blueberries into the secondary one time, like ten years ago. Don't remember if I used Campden tablets or not. Don't think I did. It was a one gallon experiment anyway. Well, the first couple bottles came out great. Wonderful, actually. The color (unlike commercial blueberry ales I have tried, it picked up quite a bit of blue color, purple now that I think about it, from the fruit) and flavor was really nice. But I only got to drink a couple. The rest were gushers and ended up being dumped. Can't know for sure if the infection was because of the blueberries or something else.

Personally I would err on the side of caution and use Campden tablets. It certainly won't harm anything, and just might save the batch.

That is great advice.  I was already leaning that way.  I have the campden tablets, so it makes no sense to take a chance.
 
By the way, I just mashed in.  It seemed like my mash in temp was going to be dead on, but as I was breaking up the doughballs it was dropping quickly.  By the time I got it all stirred in and was ready to shut the lid, my temp had dropped from 148F to 145F.  I shut the lid and started heating up my 1.61 Gallons of first sparge water.  The infusion tool told me I needed 2 quarts at 169.7F.  At 170F I added to quarts quickly and it only came up to 146.5.  I added another quart.  Then another.  It just wouldn't come up to my mash in temp of 148F, so I poured the rest in and stirred quickly, while reading my thermometer.  It hit 148F, so I shut the lid and wrapped a sleeping bag around my cooler (I was prepared, since I've had trouble holding temp on small grain bills in the past).

I'm going with a full 2 hour mash.  It's probably overkill, but I want to make sure I have full conversion.  I don't do iodine tests, so I just make sure I mash long enough at the proper temperatures, for what I'm trying to accomplish.
 
I don't do iodine tests

Why not? Iodophor is cheap, can be used as a sanitizer in a pinch, and you know for sure if you've got full conversion. That and if iodine tests are all you use it for, a small container will last for many years.
 
Maine Homebrewer said:
I don't do iodine tests

Why not? Iodophor is cheap, can be used as a sanitizer in a pinch, and you know for sure if you've got full conversion. That and if iodine tests are all you use it for, a small container will last for many years.

Is Five Star Io Star Sanitizer the same thing?  I have some of that left.

and....while I'm mashing and didn't have anything else to do, I decided to google it.  Five Star Io Star Sanitizer is Iodorphor works just fine.
 
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