Author Topic: Water Volumes  (Read 10646 times)

Offline nicklawmusic

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Water Volumes
« on: July 19, 2015, 08:11:53 AM »
Hi everyone,

I'm having a little trouble with setting up profiles for batch sparging with the Water Volumes tab.  I was under the impression, with batch sparging, that you added two equal amounts.  For example, let's say I was using a total of 32L of water.  I thought I needed to add 16L into the mash and 16L for the sparge.  Is that correct?

I don't understand the difference between Tot Mash Water and Mash Volume Needed.  For example, Beersmith says I need a total of 35.55L water in total.

It says that I need 14.79L mash water and 23.72L of sparge water.  This comes to a total of 38.51L.

Also, I don't understand why Beersmith gives me different amounts of water to mash with (it says 11L in a different tab)?  Can anybody point me in the right direction as, since I've started using it, I've consistently been between 6 and 10 points of my OG.

Thanks,
Nick

Offline Oginme

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 10:18:29 AM »
Let's start with definitions:

Total Mash Water needed is the amount of water required for the mash based upon your equipment and mash profiles, and the amount of grain in your recipe.

Total Mash Volume is the volume required of your mash tun to hold the mash water and the displacement caused by the grain bill.

The amount of mash water in your recipe is determined by your mash step in the mash profile.  In it you set the water to grain ratio in your infusion step.  You can change this as needed for your particular process.

For optimum efficiency, several studies state that the runnings from the initial mash water and the sparge be roughly equal in volume.  To do this, you need to take the total water needed, subtract out the amount of water which will be absorbed by the grain, and then divide the difference by 2.  Take that amount and add in the amount of water absorbed by the grain and that becomes your mash volume.  The sparge water is the same figure without the grain absorption volume.

To adjust this in your profile, open up your mash profile and highlight the 'mash in' step.  Click 'edit step' and you can change the value of 'water to add' to your calculated value.  BeerSmith will then calculate the water to grain ratio.  If you do this calculation for a 'standard' grain bill you brew, then the figure in the mash profile will be close enough for most of the brews you produce.

I think in your post when you use 14.79 liters of water in your water calculation that number comes from the Mash Volume Needed.  If so, this will include the volume displacement of the grain and explains why it does not add up to the same amount as the total water needed of 35.55 liters.


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Offline brewfun

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 09:50:31 PM »
I don't understand the difference between Tot Mash Water and Mash Volume Needed.

The Mash Volume Needed is the amount of space needed for both grain and water, based on your recipe and water additions in your mash schedule. The dot next to the amount will turn red if you exceed the volume in your equipment profile.

Total Mash Water is the volume accumulated in each of your mash steps.

You can set a mash with any water ratio that you desire. If the Batch Sparge box in the mash profile is checked AND you've checked "Use Equal...," then BeerSmith will show you a first volume to add to the mash water. You would simply add this volume after your conversion rest and let it sit for 10 minutes before you drain and sparge again.

If you also check "Drain Mash Tun...," then BeerSmith will tell you to do just that and then split the sparge into batches that are close to the mash volume used.

The "Batch" in this method refers to adding an amount of water all at once, letting it steep a little, then draining it all. Two equal volumes is an elegant balance, but it isn't mandatory. If you happen to have a smaller mash tun, it might take three or four batches to fill your kettle and that's fine. Often a second or third sparge volume can get the last bit of sugar and increase your efficiency quite a lot.
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Offline terragady

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 11:49:38 AM »
My problem with BS2 is that I cannot change water needed to mash, it calculate it automatically. I am using BIAB mash with Full Boil. The only way I can play with it is to change Kettle top up.

Estimated pre boil volume and after boil has nothing to do with my later batch size? My post boil vol is much higher then fermentation volumes by few litres. Even when I set 0 for all losses. Weird. My calculated OG is also much higher than what recipies say, of corse after proper efficiency.

Offline brewfun

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2015, 04:09:12 AM »
My problem with BS2 is that I cannot change water needed to mash, it calculate it automatically.

Make sure that your infusions are correct. It sounds like your mash steps have extra water added.

Quote
Estimated pre boil volume and after boil has nothing to do with my later batch size? My post boil vol is much higher then fermentation volumes by few litres. Even when I set 0 for all losses. Weird. My calculated OG is also much higher than what recipies say, of corse after proper efficiency.

Please read this article: http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,8579.0.html

This'll help you get your profiles set up better. From your description, it sounds like a number of your inputs need adjustment. To go through them all would be to rewrite the article I linked to.
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Offline terragady

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2015, 04:37:17 AM »
ok thank will have a look.
With mash I dont know, i have something like this in attachament, and I cannot change boil volume anyhow there. Only when I change the kettle top up water volume.

Offline Jiffster

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2015, 01:14:57 PM »
I hope this doesn't come across as me being lazy, but, are there any videos showing a brew day using Beersmith 2 that walks through all of the steps, including setting up the equipment profile, and the entire process from A-Z?


Offline Oginme

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2015, 06:55:17 PM »
ok thank will have a look.
With mash I dont know, i have something like this in attachament, and I cannot change boil volume anyhow there. Only when I change the kettle top up water volume.

Your boil volume is set by YOUR equipment profile.  If you are using someone else's equipment profile, then you want to use the 'scale recipe' feature to change the recipe to reflect your process. 

BeerSmith backs into the mash, boil and post boil volumes by using the volume to fermentor (set in your equipment file as 'batch size') then adjusts it for 'top off water' and 'loss to chiller and trub' to arrive at the post-boil volume.  It will calculate in the 'boil off' rate  and the 'boil time' and add that volume to the post boil volume to come up with your pre-boil volume.

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Offline Oginme

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Re: Water Volumes
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2015, 06:57:27 PM »
I hope this doesn't come across as me being lazy, but, are there any videos showing a brew day using Beersmith 2 that walks through all of the steps, including setting up the equipment profile, and the entire process from A-Z?

Brad has training videos on the BeerSmith web site.  You can also check out Brulosophor's web site for a walk through of setting up equipment and mash profiles.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!