Author Topic: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically  (Read 6793 times)

Offline esdill

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« on: May 05, 2018, 01:01:04 PM »
As I tweak my equipment profile with each brew, the changes that I make only apply to new recipes that I create. All existing recipes still hold the old equipment profile information. The only way I have found to update the equipment profile in the recipe is to open the recipe, re-select the equipment profile, and save the recipe. This becomes very tedious with hundreds of recipes. It would be nice the have a one click option to "Update equipment profile in all recipes" (it could be a checkbox selection in the profile itself), or for the program to automatically refresh/update the profile each time the recipe is opened. It would be best to exclude the Brew Log folder from any automatic updates since these recipes have already been brewed using the "old" profile. The same holds true for the mash profiles, a one click update in existing recipes would be great.

Offline BOB357

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 717
  • Beer is my bucket list!
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 01:13:28 PM »
Your idea would be fine if it weren't for those of us who use several different equipment profiles. Personally, I do conventional batch sparging in the colder months, BIAB in the warmer months and occasionally a small batch with either of those processes. I also have a no heat profile I use for cider making. So, I use one of 5 different profiles. I know there are many others out there who use different equipment/processes which require different equipment profiles as well.

Personally, I have several hundred recipes as well and just select the desired profile when I open up a recipe in preparation to brew it or add a new recipe. Pretty simple to do once you get into the habit.
Bob

Offline esdill

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 11:29:28 AM »
I have several equipment profiles as well, and if done correctly only the recipes using the particular profile that was "tweaked" would be updated, not every recipe in the catalog. Another issue that surfaced is that when the boil off rate is adjusted in the equipment profile, the recipes retain the old boil-off rate even if the equipment profile is manually refreshed ... the water volume in the recipe does not adjust automatically. You must delete the water item from the recipe and re-add it to get the proper water volume in the recipe.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 12:05:26 PM by esdill »

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3150
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 05:40:21 PM »
I have not experienced the boil off issue you are citing.  When I change the boil off rate in the equipment profile and then update the profile in the recipe, the infusion volume changes to reflect the change in boil off rate (using full volume BIAB to make check easier). 

The water volume in the design tab is a known issue.   I usually add the water at the last minute when I am ready to print out the brew day sheet to allow for any last minute changes to the recipe (I like to tweak),

I have all my equipment profile labeled with the date that I updated them, so the program would not be able to update any of the recipes since they all have a date stamp in the name.  Like BOB357, I go through a recipe when I copy it to the brew log and update the ingredients to the latest batch I have received (grains and hops) which also updates the pricing.  Since each of the equipment profiles is stamped with the date in the title, I can see if it needs to be updated instantly.  I can see that it may be useful to some people, but I also know a number of users that don't use the brew log function, so their history would be mucked up with the automatic update of the new equipment profile.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline esdill

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2018, 03:26:33 AM »
As I had suggested, the update could be controlled by the user if there was a checkbox in the equipment profile that controlled whether the function was to be used or not. If the box is checked the recipes update, if the box is not checked the recipes do not update.

Online brewfun

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2304
  • Malt dust is just alcohol's glitter
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 02:29:09 AM »
It would be nice the have a one click option to "Update equipment profile in all recipes" (it could be a checkbox selection in the profile itself), or for the program to automatically refresh/update the profile each time the recipe is opened. It would be best to exclude the Brew Log folder from any automatic updates since these recipes have already been brewed using the "old" profile. The same holds true for the mash profiles, a one click update in existing recipes would be great.

This has come up before and on the face of it makes sense. There is sort of a chicken and egg issue here, that quickly muddies the water.

BeerSmith holds each recipe and profile as flat files. This has the advantage of preserving things as "where you were back when." Any updates reflect "where you are now," and don't change the history and specs of all the others.

I know, that's exactly your point. So, consider that as you're writing hundreds of recipes, you're starting with the expectation that all of the specs match what you want for it and you don't want those to change.

It turns out that the Scale Recipe function suits these issues because it lets you choose between letting the equipment profile change the specs or letting BeerSmith make some assumptions to preserve the specs.

However, Scale Recipe doesn't let you update multiple recipes in one shot and that would be easiest to change.

The result might be that after incorporating various changes to an equipment profile, you can then highlight all the recipes you want to apply the changes to. You'd then have the intermediate choices that are part of scaling that could be applied or ignored.

If the Scale Recipe function were also expanded to include mash and fermentation profiles, it would look a lot like what you're suggesting.


Beer Appreciation is the space between pints.

Offline sommersb

  • BeerSmith New Brewer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2019, 07:43:37 AM »
Yes please add this feature; having to manually update every recipe when I tweak something like efficiency is a pain.

Offline dtapke

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 452
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 07:59:37 AM »
I don't understand the benefit of tweaking an old recipe. That recipe has been made and is done. 

when brewing a second batch (or third, fourth, whatever) I always take my original recipe, copy it, update my equipment profile, make any tweaks i suggested in my "notes" section, and then start my brewday.

this allows me to look back at previous versions to see what has changed, what i've gained/lost. how my equipment has improved over time. It's a 2 second process to update the equipment profile and if it "auto updated" i would never be able to track any of this.

from a programming standpoint i have no knowledge of the difficulty to make this happen. but i imagine it would be horrible. every time you update a profile beersmith would have to go in and alter every single recipe that used that profile. How long would that take if you had several hundred (thousand?) recipes??? would it do this process on start-up or shut-down? if shut down, what would happen if the program locked up on shut down or the computer was shut off without the programming shutting down?

It just sounds like a nightmare in all regards to me.
32g eHERMS
Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
Primary: empty
Secondary/Lagering:
Next Brew: RIS

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3150
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2019, 09:00:35 AM »
I agree with dtapke on the complexity of this request.   Number one, it would totally mess up the archival nature of past brewed recipes.  Number two, the act of changing a profile for a recipe should be a thoughtful process.  Having the program just change the equipment profile would alter the perspective outcome of an already created recipe.  As Brewfun stated above, this should be accomplished through the scale recipe function or with manual adjustments of ingredients.

Having around 638 recipes in BeerSmith (brewed and unbrewed), I can understand the want to plow through all of these quickly.  But of all the recipes within BeerSmith, 207 are purely archival and I would not want them touched at all.  The remaining get updated profiles, ingredient specs, and pricing when I copy them into the brew log folder in preparation for brewing them.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline jomebrew

  • Global Moderator
  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
    • Jomebrew
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2019, 08:10:19 AM »
A brew day wizard would be nice for a lot of users (i think). I imagine it would talk you through picking the source recipe, equipment profile, mash profile, yeast profile, etc until you choose a target folder for the brew day log / recipe.

Offline emarti20

  • BeerSmith Apprentice Brewer
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • BeerSmith 2 Rocks!
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2019, 09:43:49 AM »
Even a simple indicator when you open a recipe to highlight that the profile saved in the recipe does not match the current profile based on the profile name would be helpful as a reminder.

Offline Oginme

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3150
  • Goats, guitars, and a home brew; Life is good!
    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2019, 09:56:06 AM »
I include a date stamp in my profile names so I can see at a glance if I am working with the latest version.  I can also go back to the previous one without having to undo the changes.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline gizzygizmo

  • BeerSmith Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 30
  • BeerSmith Rocks!
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2019, 06:22:07 PM »
I think a simple dialog/option when editing an equipment profile to be able to say "yes/no" to updating existing recipes using that profile would be good enough.  You could even display the list of recipes that are using the profile and allow the user to select/deselect ones.

I can see both arguments:

1)  You built those recipes and regardless of what the profile says/does the values for OG/SG/volumes are all where you want them.  You don't want them to change... you want to edit/adjust them as you go

2)  You just realized that the reason you're always short on wort preboil volume after mashl is because you've got 1/2 gallon of unrecoverable space under your mash tun.  You want to update this so you sparge with 1/2 gallon more water.  You don't want to have to edit hundreds of recipes individually to update the profile on each.

Offline dtapke

  • BeerSmith Grandmaster Brewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 452
Re: Update equipment profile in recipes automatically
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2019, 12:58:39 PM »
as for the latter issue, I always make a "copy" of a recipe when i brew it, from that copy i would just re-select my equipment profile to fix that issue.
32g eHERMS
Drinking: Dopplebock, NEIPA, Pils
Primary: empty
Secondary/Lagering:
Next Brew: RIS