Author Topic: mash profile in BS  (Read 3520 times)

Offline wellertheseller

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mash profile in BS
« on: July 07, 2019, 04:48:35 PM »
Hi, I've been doing 4 gallon AG batches and use a 5 gallon cooler mash tun. i'm upgrading my kettle to do be able to do 5 gallon batches. i'm creating a recipe for 5 gallons and under the mash tab, it keeps forcing me to use 3 steps.

I do a 1 hour mash, and then vourlaf, drain, and do a second round of hot water as mash out (what i thought was normal batch sparge method).

i selected the single infusion, med body, no mash out, 1 step option and then edited from there. under mash tab, under batch sparge options i checked batch sparge using batches that fill, 100% and checked drain mash tun box.

now it says for mash in 14.73 quarts at 163 deg, OK

then, batch sparge with 3 steps (drain mash tun, 2.72 gal, 1.27 gal) of 168 deg water.

is it possible that my 5 gallon cooler mash tun is suddenly not big enough and BS is forcing another step on me now? i looked back at all of my 4 gallon recipes and thought i created an identical mash profile.

please help. thanks!

Offline Oginme

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2019, 05:09:20 PM »
What is your mash dead space loss and recoverable mash tun dead space in your equipment profile?
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Offline wellertheseller

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2019, 05:24:30 PM »
mash tun dead space losses is .09 gallons.

recoverable set at 0

Offline Kevin58

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 05:43:56 PM »
If you haven't set up any profiles you should. Here is how to set up a batch sparge mash profile...

https://youtu.be/CZ0TFtMnzxs

You didn't ask about equipment profiles but it's crucial to have an accurate one....

https://youtu.be/QmW7pwQP5mQ

and one more...

https://youtu.be/HwEbjOt8OR8
If you?re stressing over homebrewing, you?re doing something wrong.
- Denny Conn

Offline wellertheseller

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2019, 05:50:48 PM »
ok, i'll ck it out, but i have my equipment set up in BS, but it's the mash profile that I struggle with. i will re-watch the videos and see what i can figure out.

Offline Oginme

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2019, 06:05:38 PM »
The volumes, capacities, losses in your equipment profile affect how much water can be applied during your mash.  This affects how the mash profile is applied and splits the water volumes for the sparge.
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Offline wellertheseller

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2019, 06:20:22 PM »
i think i am running up against the limitations of a 5 gallon mash tun. why i'm not sure. i think there is room. i tested this theory by creating a test equip profile and told it i have a 10 gal mash tun, instead of my 5 gal. solved the problem. suggested a 1 step sparge, like i wanted. any thoughts as a workaround for this? reality is i have a 5 gal.

thanks

Offline Oginme

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2019, 06:40:57 PM »
It might be real tight for a 5-gal mash tun, but I can fit it in mine with one sparge step.  If you want help in this, list out the settings in your equipment and mash profiles so that we can see how the water is being distributed.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline wellertheseller

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2019, 07:44:56 PM »
can i attach screen shots of my equipment profile?

Offline wellertheseller

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2019, 09:24:30 PM »
last question, i promise. in BS, the default water to grain ratio is 1.25 qt/lb. in the video instructions and john palmer's how to brew, it says 1.5. what's the difference, and am i doing something wrong?

Offline Oginme

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2019, 06:58:46 AM »
Mash thickness, determined by the water to grain ratio is mostly a matter of personal process and efficiency.  1.25 qts/lb of grain is about as low as you reasonably want to go and is based upon the minimum amount of water needed to solubilize the starches and enzymes for adequate conversion.  A lot of commercial brewers use this as it allows them to maximize the capacity of their mash tuns.  You can go anywhere from that point up to full volume mashing for BIAB or no sparge brewing which typically runs 3+ qts/lb for my system. 

If you are currently at 1.25 qts/lb and you have head room in your mash tun during the initial mashing, you have plenty of opportunity to shift some of the sparge water into the mashing step which may allow you to fit all your sparge into one addition.  You can play around with the mash profile in the recipe to see what works for you and look at the effect it has on the volume of the sparge and the number of steps it requires.  Given your previous post about the first sparge being only 2.72 gallons, this means that your mash tun already contains 2.28 gallons of material after draining.  Given that the specific volume of the grain is around .078 gal/lb, this means that there is still a lot of fluid left in your mash tun.  Here, making sure that your equipment profile is set up correctly with regard to the mash tun loss and recoverable mash tun volume may play a part in your calculation.

One thing to note is that the mash profile determines the volumes during the mash and sparge steps but it is constrained in how much volume it has to work with by the equipment profile. 
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Kevin58

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2019, 07:10:04 AM »
When you say you have your equipment set up in BS does that mean you are using one of the profiles that came included in the program or did you set up your own? The profiles that come in the software as well as the add-on profiles were set up by someone else to fit their brewing procedures. You can use the profiles that come with BeerSmith as your starting point but you really should go through your system and measure all of the weights and measures required to make the program work for you. Since mash volume is part of the equipment setup it's pretty important for the mash process. And again, setting up your own mash profile to accompany your equipment profile will allow you to select for yourself things like how many steps and water to grain ratios.

Your brew days will be full of frustrations until you set up accurate profiles. It's worth the time and effort.
If you?re stressing over homebrewing, you?re doing something wrong.
- Denny Conn

Offline wellertheseller

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2019, 06:26:43 PM »
re: the mash question, i was just wondering b/c the default in BS for mash water to grain ratio is 1.25 and in the instructional video that was posted above showed a default of 1.5. wondering if that changed or something.

re: setting up my equipment in BS. I have a new equipment profile set up for all of my set ups. different batch sizes, fermenters...etc. have separate profiles set up for AG, PM and extract too.

still learning every batch that i brew. only been brewing 1.5 yrs.

Offline Oginme

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2019, 06:48:34 PM »
Please do not take any profile in BeerSmith as being the best way!  These are templates set up to act as starting places for users to modify to fit how they prefer to brew.  Like everything else in the program, it is meant to be altered to fit your equipment and how you want to operate it. 

You see from the default profile and the one set up in the video that there are more than one way of conducting the mash.  My typical mash profiles involve either a full volume mash, or an infusion mash with the initial infusion around 1.8 qts/lb of grain as this is pretty close on most of my recipes to splitting the water so that I get about even amounts of wort from my mash as I do from my batch sparge.  For me, this seems to maximize my mash efficiency versus other ratios.  Other brewers have things set up differently to match their systems and capacity restraints.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Kevin58

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Re: mash profile in BS
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2019, 09:13:48 AM »
It's likely that whoever wrote the instructions had a reason to do a 1.5 qt./lb ratio. Or they could have chosen it because it's a good middle of the road setting. You can click on the mash step and change the ratio to whatever suits your process. I have set all mine to 1.3 qt/lb as my default but sometimes I want a thicker or thinner mash so I'm tweaking that setting with every brew.
If you?re stressing over homebrewing, you?re doing something wrong.
- Denny Conn