Author Topic: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!  (Read 8998 times)

Offline UselessBrewing

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What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« on: June 02, 2009, 07:36:45 AM »
I have a Strong Scotch Ale that started life at 1.131. It finished at 1.040 in 2 weeks. I waited an extra two weeks, then transferred to secondary. About 4 days into the secondary. I had an active fermentation going again, complete with a yeast cake on the bottom! Only difference was there was no Krausen (Like a wine yeast) and no funk on the top, like you would see with an infection! :o

Previously I made some apple wine in the same carboy with Lalvin D-47. I cleaned everything very well! None of my procedures changed (overnite soak with oxyclean and a bottle brush, then a good rinse). I sanitized everything prior to the transfer with Starsan.

I suspect that the fermentation I experienced was from the D-47.

I have left it alone now for two months in secondary. Fermentation has stopped (Again!), and the FG is now at 1.007 (16.4% ABV)!  It has a very Dry flavor (As you could imagine) with a lot of alcohol warmth! I detect No real off flavors (Yet). I had planed to transfer this to a Corney for aging for a year. However, It may be in my best interest to carbonate and drink it! Because I am unsure what I will have after a year of aging! If it was an infection, it will be a nasty mess! If it was D-47, then it will be fine.

I have heard of breweries fermenting on ale yeast, and then adding wine yeasts at bottling time for carbonation because of the high alcohol content.

Working on 3 1/2 months into this batch. What would you do? What are your thoughts?

Cheers
Preston
 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 08:14:29 AM by UselessBrewing »
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Offline MaltLicker

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 11:18:28 AM »
Other than the low FG, everything sounds normal to me.  Drink that one in a soft chair.....

Hard to imagine enough wine yeast surviving the Oxy soak and StarSan.......any chance some of it went "wild" in the room in which you transfer beers?   I have heard some people worry about brett getting loose in the home brewery. 

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 11:41:30 AM »
I'm with you on the yeast surviving the cleaning regiment. I guess it is possible that some Brettanomyces (Brett) could have gotten in there. If so, I would have thought there would be a krausen or at least a funky film on top. But there was none. Also there is no Earthy/Sour/Musty flavors. Right now (2 months in secondary, 3 1/2 months total age) it tastes like beer, with LOTS of alcohol! It does not even have much Fusil flavor at all either, just the alcohol warmth.

If it does not begin to take on any bad flavors, I'm thinking about calling it "Useless Fire Water!"

Cheers
Preston
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dhaenerbrewer

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2009, 08:04:03 PM »
In my opinion it is definitely not brett. A brettanomyces fermentation will form a very distinct pellicle on top ( a thick white film that doesn't look the same as a bacterial infection. ). I would have to agree with your assumption about the surviving wine yeast. Yeast is pretty hardy, especially wine yeast. With attenuation like that, it would have to be some sort of wine or champagne yeast to survive.

Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River Brewing Company uses wine yeast for bottle conditioning in his Belgian ales. I too have started this practice, but only have one batch of a Belgian Tripel under my belt, and it is carbonating slowly; but it is carbonating.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 08:56:05 PM »
I meant to say that the wine yeast got loose "like a brett yeast" or house wild yeast in a sour Belgian brewery, i.e., it's in the air.  Since you're getting into yeast farming, can you leave some agar dishes out and see what grows? 

"uselessii delbruckii"

"uselessii vinomoonshinii"

The possibilities are endlessii. 

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 07:08:44 AM »
Great Names! I'm partial to delbrueckii because of the yeast aspect! Thanks for that!

So the next cleaning I do, I should add bleach to the regiment to kill any yeast/nasties?

I have been toying with making a jet carboy washer, may be the time to revisit that idea.

Your thought's:

Cheers
Preston
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dhaenerbrewer

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 06:23:55 PM »
Preston-

I've toyed around with making a jet style carboy washer. Even something to recirculate with a pump, and have had no luck. A good old fashioned carboy brush and some soaking works best for me. As far as the bleach goes. It's pretty nasty stuff and leaves quite a residue. If you're going to use it, I would rinse it very well, and follow up with your standard no rinse sanitizer. Also, don't let any bleach come in contact with anything stainless steel. It corrodes it.

Darin

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 09:14:24 AM »
Will do! My thought was soak in Bleach first, Rinse well, soak in Oxyclean, Rinse well, then the Sanitizer.

Cheers

Preston
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dhaenerbrewer

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 11:41:15 PM »
That sounds like a good cleaning regimen. Are you using Oxyclean as a detergent? If so, I would do that first, then do the bleach, followed by the sanitizer. Bleach does a great job on the surface, but if there is any organic matter in your carboy, it won't penetrate it.

Darin

Offline bonjour

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2009, 10:27:04 AM »
What was your recipe and your mash profile?  The wine yeast would have a higher alcohol tolerance, but still ferments the same sugars that beer yeast does.  Wine Must has VERY few long chain sugars in it.

Fred

Offline UselessBrewing

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 12:50:19 PM »
I don't see how the Mash temps have anything to do with my issue since everything went fine up until I transferred to secondary as it has for the previous two batches. But I included it anyhow... Just because I don't want to leave any stone unturned.

I mashed low because of the high gravity of this monster, which I normally do on any brew above 1.060. You should note that I brewed an old ale prior to this beer and pitched on top of the yeast cake so there was plenty of viable yeast. There were no infections with the old ale which I added whiskey soaked oak chips to the secondary.
The Mash in was 150F (Nailed it) and I decocted for the mash out. I have attached the bsm file for Your review.

Thanks for the interest and input.

Cheers
Preston
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 01:27:35 PM by UselessBrewing »
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Offline bonjour

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 02:39:01 PM »
sorry for the delay, and thanks for posting the recipe.

Anytime you have an attenuation issue both the recipe and the mash profile must be looked at.  And you are right, neither appears to be an issue here, but. . .  Could you check the accuracy of your thermometer, make sure it is not reading high.

I suspect that your 2nd fermentation may have been triggered by O2 introduction during your transfer process. simply because you are above the alcohol tolerance of the yeast the addition of additional O2 kicked it.  What was your aeration procedure?

Ale yeast is S. cerevisiae, D-47 is S. cerevisiae cerevisiae with an alcohol tolerance of 14%, unless you didn't sanitize your carboy that shouldn't come into play.  Both yeasts consume the same sugars which again brings up the question of attenuation, and the corresponding mash.

for a 1.131 OG a 1.007 FG is extremely low.

Regarding carbonation,  force carb in the keg, then bottle.

Fred

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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale!
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2009, 03:32:37 PM »
Thanks for getting back with me, it is most appreciated!

I use a 12" glass red bulb thermometer with 1deg ticks in Centigrade . I believe it is correct, because I am at sea level and my water boils at 100C.

My aeration process for Primary fermentation is as follows: After cooling wort down to low to mid 70's I then use a sterilized Stainless whisk for 10 min. I then wait 20 min. and then use an autosiphon to transfer to primary. My tubing us long enough that I usually have 1 1/2 coils in the bottom of the primary to mix up the yeast cake as it transfers.

I attempt to be as quiet as possible when transferring to secondary for bulk conditioning, as I was with this batch

Cleaning with oxyclean and a bottle brush are the norm and StarSan everything prior to the transfer.

I plan on kegging this one tonight and will let you know soon.

Cheers
Preston
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 07:25:26 AM by UselessBrewing »
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Re: What to do with A Strong Scotch Ale! ((Update))
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 02:33:16 PM »
It was an Infection and not the D-47. I carbonated the scotch and left it for almost a month to see what happens. I poured a glass last night and it nearly knocked me over!!!  :'(
The only way to describe it would be, Really Bad Beer Farts! :o  LOL. SWMBO made me take the glass out of the house and rinse it with the hose in the yard. It started raining so I used that to wash it down the culvert so the neighborhood did not have to smell it...

Guess I need to make another batch  ;D That's not a bad thing right?

Cheers
Preston
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