Decoction question

Hi Guys,

Getting ready to put together some lagers for the fall and need someone's advice regarding decoction mashing.

I use the typical Igloo coolers for mashing and for holding sparge water.  If I want to do a multiple step, decoction mash at increasing temperatures, what's the easiest way to do this without using direct heat to increase temperatures?

Can I use a lower mash/water ratio to start and then add boiling water to get me to the next temperature level?  If so, any general guidelines for what amount of (boiling?)water will increase an amount of mash at a particular temperature?

Maybe I should just ask, "What do you guys do?"

Thanks,
Monge

I have seen the wort drained, heated and put back in the mash tun.  I have also seen the wort pumped through a coil in the hot liquor tank that is at the next temp and is recirculated until the mash is at the next temp.

Let me point you to a three part video. It ha s very good step by step explanation of a three step decoction mash.
Part 1:
[youtube]_V1zt0mW084[/youtube]

Part 2:
[youtube]I5u_nJhMD4w[/youtube]

Part 3:
[youtube]6VcZRVw2k_o[/youtube]

I use a bucket in an insulated box as mash tun.
When conversion is complete I remove a third or so of the mash, put it in a stock pot on the stove, bring it to a full boil, let it boil for ten minutes or so, then mix it back into the mash.
Last batch it stabilized round 165 which was good enough for mash out. I let it sit while I heat the sparge water. Then recirculation begins.
I'm always winging it. The beer tastes good. That's what matters, right?

I'll have to check out the videos Charlie posted, but the idea of the decoction is a two fold, you get the melanoidins or kettle carmelization, but you also push the mash through the lower ranges and rests like acid and protein to enable use of unmodified malt.  you would almost have to look for unmodified malt these days and you can get a fairly close result with modern malt in a single infusion and long boil.

Still I totally understand "doing it right" and there are some flavor gains from decoction in German and Boheimina Pils styles.

If you have the time and patience it is fun to use the older style mashes to get a feel for beer making centeruries ago. 

I haven't done a Decoction, but I did a Cereal Mash for my wit to convert the unmalted white wheat and steel cut oats.  It was a pain, but I nailed the "Wit Glow", mouthfeel, and flavor.

Thanks Guys,

So are you saying that if I use modern modified malts there wouldn't be much effect using a stepped mash?  Also, when you say use a "long boil" how long are you suggesting and at what temp?

Monge

Step mash does not mean decoction mash.  Step mash means running the mash through a series of temperatures. Decoction is a method of raising the heat. Adding boiling water or using direct heat is not decoction. Decoction is a method of raising the temperature where you remove a portion of the wort, bring it to a boil, and mix it back in.

The protein rest is "necessary" only if you do not have modern modified malt. I put necessary in quotes because the consequence of not doing a protein rest is your beer clouding up at near freezing temperatures. It's not going to taste any different. And being that with modified malt you don't need to do a protein rest, all you are doing is adding time to your brew day.

I use decoction for my mash out. I remove approximately a third of my mash, bring it to a full boil for a few minutes, and mix it back in. The goal is to bring the temp from 150 or so to 170 or so before sparging.  I don't bother with the 125, 135 whatever steps because one, I'm using modified malts and two, even if I didn't have modified malts I don't think clear beer is so important that I need to put all that extra time and effort into the brew day.  If I was selling the stuff it would be different, but I'm not.

Either way, totally go for it with lager. I did ales for a decade or so before I had a fifty degree basement in the winter time that allowed me to ferment lager.  I tasted it at kegging time and wasn't that impressed. But then, as it lagered in the keg a thirty two degrees, this magic happened. The off flavors dissipated and a crispy pilsener started to emerge. It was amazing.

Have fun!