Author Topic: Yeast starter tool  (Read 7877 times)

Offline cy2989

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Yeast starter tool
« on: April 12, 2012, 02:02:12 PM »
I've noticed that BS2's yeast starter tool calculates a smaller starter than does mr malty or yeastcalc.  They agree on yeast cells needed but the recommended starter size is where they disagree.  BS2 tells me that I can get 466 Billion cells from a 88.75% viable smack pack with a 3L starter using a stir plate.  Yeastcalc says I will get 356 billion from the same set of variables.  It's large difference.  Which should I trust?  BTW, yeastcalc and mr malty pretty much give the same results.

Thanks for the help,
Chris

Offline tom_hampton

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 08:00:38 PM »
I use yeastcalc.   I find the yeast starter tool useless.
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Offline cy2989

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 08:07:44 PM »
I use yeastcalc.   I find the yeast starter tool useless.

Hi Tom,

Why do you find it useless?

Offline tom_hampton

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 10:14:23 PM »
Useless is probably a bit harsh.  But, not by much.  There are numerous bugs in the tool.  I've posted on several, but I got tired of finding them all and just stopped.  Yeast calc works, so I use that. 

"Yeast cells needed" is the only value on the page that I find to be accurate.  The rest of it is just wrong.  It might be correct under some conditions...probably if you buy a vial or sachet of yeast.  I grow my own yeast from frozen cultures.  The yeast tool doesn't get it even close to right.  As I say at work, "just no worky, worky." 
R.I.P.:Belgian Blonde
On Tap: Apfelwein, Kolsch(v2), Pumpkin Ale, Belgian Specialty 
Aging/Storing: Coffee Porter, Chocolate Porter, Flanders Red, English Barlywine
Fermenting: Maggie's Altbier
Next Up: PtE(1.1), Belgian Dubbel?

Working thru all BCS recipes

Offline cy2989

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 11:07:00 AM »
Thanks Tom.  Since I posted this Brad got back to me and explained that BS2 is overestimating the effect of the stir plate.  This is fixed in a beta release now available.

Offline glienhard

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 10:48:33 PM »
I am running the current beta release and it is still not fixed.

Brad, if you see this, could you let us know.  Thanks :)

Cheers!

Offline tom_hampton

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 10:47:00 PM »
Thanks Tom.  Since I posted this Brad got back to me and explained that BS2 is overestimating the effect of the stir plate.  This is fixed in a beta release now available.

Yeah, I have more problems with the tool than the stir plate effect. 

1.  The numbers don't match any published results that I'm aware of.
2.  The tool limits the maximum amount of growth regardless of size of starter.
3.  The tool does not allow you to conduct a stepped starter.

Take a look at yeastcalc.com.  This tool does EXACTLY what I need. 
R.I.P.:Belgian Blonde
On Tap: Apfelwein, Kolsch(v2), Pumpkin Ale, Belgian Specialty 
Aging/Storing: Coffee Porter, Chocolate Porter, Flanders Red, English Barlywine
Fermenting: Maggie's Altbier
Next Up: PtE(1.1), Belgian Dubbel?

Working thru all BCS recipes

Offline glienhard

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 10:58:07 PM »
I have used the yeast calculator on mrmalty.com with high success.  I just took a look at yeastcalc.com.  It is very confusing compared to Mr Malty.

Offline tom_hampton

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 11:35:46 PM »
Mrmalty and yeastcalc have almost exactly the same results.  So, if you like mrmalty.com, use that. 

I library my own yeasts, so I start with very small quantities of yeast.  As a result I MUST grow my starters in steps.  Yeastcalc lets me calculate the results of up to three steps.  In addition, yeastcalc lets me specify the size of the original yeast colony going into my first step, whereas Mrmalty assumes I'm using a standard vial or packet. 

R.I.P.:Belgian Blonde
On Tap: Apfelwein, Kolsch(v2), Pumpkin Ale, Belgian Specialty 
Aging/Storing: Coffee Porter, Chocolate Porter, Flanders Red, English Barlywine
Fermenting: Maggie's Altbier
Next Up: PtE(1.1), Belgian Dubbel?

Working thru all BCS recipes

Offline glienhard

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Re: Yeast starter tool
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 12:30:44 AM »
Yes, I too have found that both sites give almost exactly the same results.  I figured that I would throw out my two cents, figuring that it might be of a help to a lot of beginner and intermediate brewers.

I see what you are talking about with having the ability to grow the starter in steps.  That would be a very handy thing that yeastcalc helps out with.

This would be a great thing for Brad to work into the fix of the yeast starter part of BeerSmith.