Author Topic: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3  (Read 5736 times)

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« on: August 14, 2018, 07:59:26 AM »
Hey all,

I have the full version of BS3 and in looking over my Imperial Coffee Milk Stout recipe from two years ago and inputting it into my software, I notice on the Mash tab of the beer that there Sparge instructions right below my mash in description it says to Batch sparge w/ 2 steps (Drain mash tun, 3.98gal) yet if I look to my right there's a "Sparge/Lauter" inlet that tells me to add 3.71 gallons of sparge water; so why the discrepancy? Also, mashing in at 1.25qt/lb for 22 or so pounds of grain, why is it instructing me to use over 10 gallons? On the Design tab to the bottom right it's telling me that I'm using 23.25lb of grain but, including Rice Hulls, I'm using 21.75. I've included the recipe in the BS3 format for reference if anyone could take a peek and let me know where I'm going wrong.

Thanks in advance & Cheers!
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Oginme

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 08:38:31 AM »
So after bumbling around a bit trying to figure out where the numbers were coming from, I looked at your mash profile.  The box for 'drain mash tun before sparging' was unchecked and as soon as I checked that box and saved the profile, the numbers matched for the sparge volume and the sparge instructions.

I am still not sure where the original error comes from since the volumes don't add up well.  I suspect that the program is trying to match the runnings from the initial drain and the sparge step, but it still does not quite add up correctly.


Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 08:42:25 AM »
So after bumbling around a bit trying to figure out where the numbers were coming from, I looked at your mash profile.  The box for 'drain mash tun before sparging' was unchecked and as soon as I checked that box and saved the profile, the numbers matched for the sparge volume and the sparge instructions.

I am still not sure where the original error comes from since the volumes don't add up well.  I suspect that the program is trying to match the runnings from the initial drain and the sparge step, but it still does not quite add up correctly.

Thanks for the tip, I appreciate it! Any guesses as to why I have so much water? 10+ gallons is a lot, esp for 71% efficiency.
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Oginme

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 08:57:39 AM »
The volume is corrected once you have 'drain mash tun before sparging' is checked.  This will give you a total water demand of around 8.8 gallons.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 09:05:55 AM »
The volume is corrected once you have 'drain mash tun before sparging' is checked.  This will give you a total water demand of around 8.8 gallons.

That's great, thank you so much! Did the grain amount straighten out? I know there was a difference on the Design tab.
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Oginme

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 09:13:40 AM »
I honestly did not see that.  When I have some time, I will go back to your original and see what the grains difference is.

Remember that on the mash tab, the grain weight is only that weight in the mash tun, so the weight of the sugar (counted in the design tab) will not appear on the mash tab.  Could this be the difference you were seeing?
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 09:17:01 AM »
I honestly did not see that.  When I have some time, I will go back to your original and see what the grains difference is.

Remember that on the mash tab, the grain weight is only that weight in the mash tun, so the weight of the sugar (counted in the design tab) will not appear on the mash tab.  Could this be the difference you were seeing?

So to the bottom right of the Design tab it tells me the amount of Grain, Hops, etc. etc. In the grain amount it's listed as 23+ pounds but when I add the grain up on my calculator I get 21.75; which is exactly what I intended for. My calculations include 1lb of Rice Hulls, but NOT the sugar I'll be adding w/ 5 min left in the boil. The grain amount on the bottom right is not editable, so I'm trying to figure out what else it's accounting for.
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Oginme

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 09:47:59 AM »
But the design tab DOES include the sugar in the total grains calculation.  It is a sum of all the 'fermentables' included in the recipe.  Granted, the labeling is not crisp nor specific, but if you add up all the amounts on the design window, you will see that it adds up to the 'grains' total on the design tab.  Now if you subtract out the sugar weight, you will get the weight of grains added to the mash tun which appears on the mash tab.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 10:18:21 AM »
But the design tab DOES include the sugar in the total grains calculation.  It is a sum of all the 'fermentables' included in the recipe.  Granted, the labeling is not crisp nor specific, but if you add up all the amounts on the design window, you will see that it adds up to the 'grains' total on the design tab.  Now if you subtract out the sugar weight, you will get the weight of grains added to the mash tun which appears on the mash tab.

I'll have to look when I get home, because I know it was late last night when I was doing the calculations, but I subtracted the milk sugar I didn't get the same number of "grain" on the bottom right. Maybe the coffee, as an adjunct, is included in it too?
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Oginme

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 11:13:12 AM »
Nope, added up the numbers and they work out exactly as the program displays.  You do need to include the rice hulls as this goes into the mash.
Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 11:17:34 AM »
Nope, added up the numbers and they work out exactly as the program displays.  You do need to include the rice hulls as this goes into the mash.

This had to have been painfully annoying to you, because it seems so simple, but I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. The home brewing community as a whole, by and large, is an amazing community. Thank you x1,000,000!!

Cheers!
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 06:45:17 PM »
The volume is corrected once you have 'drain mash tun before sparging' is checked.  This will give you a total water demand of around 8.8 gallons.

That's great, thank you so much! Did the grain amount straighten out? I know there was a difference on the Design tab.

So I'm home fiddling around with the program and it looks like my water volume on the Volumes tab isn't straightening out. Looks like I'm still at 10.57 gallons for some reason. The sparge numbers evened out.
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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  • Posts: 21
  • Push limits of home brew, experiment every day!
    • Exit 12 Brewery
Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 07:26:39 PM »
So after bumbling around a bit trying to figure out where the numbers were coming from, I looked at your mash profile.  The box for 'drain mash tun before sparging' was unchecked and as soon as I checked that box and saved the profile, the numbers matched for the sparge volume and the sparge instructions.

I am still not sure where the original error comes from since the volumes don't add up well.  I suspect that the program is trying to match the runnings from the initial drain and the sparge step, but it still does not quite add up correctly.

I've included the recipe link in this post for your download!
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA

Offline Oginme

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    • Longvu LaManchas
Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 05:30:58 AM »
Looking at your updated recipe.  You are using 6.86 gallons for the infusion step, 3.71 gallons for the sparge.  This brings the total to 10.57 gallons.

From that 10.57 gallons, you are losing 2.61 gallons to the grain absorption (assuming standard 0.96 fl. oz per oz of grain) and 0.06 gallons of wort to dead space in your mash tun.  This leaves you with 7.9 gallons of collected wort.  your trub loss is 1 gallon, your boil off is 1.13 gallons, and volume adjustment for temperature is 0.27 gallons, so your net is 5.5 gallons.

I don't see an issue here unless your numbers for grain absorption are different from the standard setting.

Recycle your grains, feed them to a goat!

Offline Exit12Brewery_Nick

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Re: Amounts Discrepancy on BS3
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2018, 05:36:49 AM »
Looking at your updated recipe.  You are using 6.86 gallons for the infusion step, 3.71 gallons for the sparge.  This brings the total to 10.57 gallons.

From that 10.57 gallons, you are losing 2.61 gallons to the grain absorption (assuming standard 0.96 fl. oz per oz of grain) and 0.06 gallons of wort to dead space in your mash tun.  This leaves you with 7.9 gallons of collected wort.  your trub loss is 1 gallon, your boil off is 1.13 gallons, and volume adjustment for temperature is 0.27 gallons, so your net is 5.5 gallons.

I don't see an issue here unless your numbers for grain absorption are different from the standard setting.

Right, all those numbers are correct. I was considering decreasing the boil off to 1 gallon but I don't want to under shoot it, right? Probably better off going over just in case. This will be our first time using BeerSmith's software & BrewersFriend isn't even remotely as detailed in their values and analysis, so I don't have all the answers to specific loss numbers (boil off and trub, for example) so I generally, for the most part, am going with the standard settings.

I was reaching back out because you mentioned that when you clicked on the 'drain mash tun before sparging' box, that your overall water amount decreased from 10.57 gallons to 8.8 and I didn't see that change.
In The Kegerator:
Boston Bruins: --

UC Bearcats: "Bryant vs. Bird" American IPA

On Deck:

Fermenting: Super SMaSH #2 -- IPA // Twice In A Lifetime BA Imperial Milk Coffee Stout

Planning: Apple Brown Ale // Triple Play IPA