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Double temperature mash

bhe

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Feb 2, 2014
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Hi!

I have a really annoying problem with BS.

Sometimes i use my braumeister for a double mash.

I then want to create a mash-schedule with lots of steps where the temp goes down from one step to another.

For example:
35°C Mash in
52°C Rest 1 10 min
63°C Rest 2 45 min
73°C Rest 3 30 min
77°C Sparge 10 min
---here i chill the wort, change malt pipe and add new malt---
52°C Rest 6 10 min
65°C Rest 7 45 min
72°C Rest 8 30 min
77°C Sparge 10 min

This works well when i set it up, but when i restart BS the schedule will look like the schedule below since BS don't store the order of the rests and instead rebuild them based on the temp:

35°C Mash in
52°C Rest 1 10 min
52°C Rest 6 10 min
63°C Rest 2 45 min
65°C Rest 7 45 min
72°C Rest 8 30 min
73°C Rest 3 30 min
77°C Sparge 10 min
77°C Sparge 10 min


This would be nice to have improved to next version.

Thanks!
 
bhe said:
I have a really annoying problem with BS.

Sometimes i use my braumeister for a double mash.
I think you're actually doing a reiterated mash.

You've been explaining your thoughts in several sub forums and I think I finally understand what you're doing. The term "Double Mash" applies to the technique of cooking cereals or mashing other grains and adding two mashes together, grains and all. You're collecting wort from a first mash and using that as strike water in the second. This is a reiterated mash.

Unfortunately, reiterated mashes aren't common so the term is being lost to another process.

Yes, BeerSmith reorganizes mash steps by ascending temperature. Brad has said he'd address this on a future update.

A reiterated mash is one full mash that's drained and lightly sparged to get back to strike volume, heated and reintroduced to another set of fresh grains. As stunningly inefficient as it is, it also can result in stunningly high gravity, worts without long boiloffs, that'd darken or scortch the beer. 

The best way is to separate the two mashes as two recipes. Part A and Part B.

Part A Recipe
In the equipment profile, set the batch volume to equal the strike water volume. Then set boiloff, shrinkage and loss to trub to zero. None of those processes will happen to the first wort, so they should be zeroed out.

Brewhouse efficiency for the first wort should be 65% or so. Higher if you actually sparge all the way out, then boil it down.

The mash profile should follow the first set of steps you outlined. You now have a complete set of steps that you can track and record for future reference.  Translate the wort gravity into Plato, to use in part B (Unit Tools > Gravity Units).

Part B Recipe
In the equipment profile, set the batch volume to full size, along with normal boiloff, shrinkage and loss to trub. Set the Brewhouse efficiency to normal.

The mash steps should follow what you outlined in the second set of steps. Advice: I would omit the 52C rest in this one if you're not using high protein grains (wheat or oats). The protease enzymes are inhibited by the lower pH and the sugars.

Handling the first wort:
This is simpler than it sounds, so bear with me.

Convert the volume of first wort into weight. Multiply the weight by the plato value, as a percentage. This will tell you the weight of the sugar in that wort.

Create a sugar profile (Ingredients > Grains > Add Grain) called Reiterated Wort or something similar. Mark it as a sugar with 100% yield and the approximate color predicted in Part A.

In the recipe, add Reiterated Wort to the ingredients, using the weight number calculated above. This will yield the gravity carried over and allow for dilution to a full batch. You're also taking advantage of a bug in BeerSmith that adds sugar additions to mash gravity predictions and efficiency. Most of us have to zero out the sugars to see just the grains.

Example:

Part A yields 10 liters of 1.080 wort. That's 10 Kilo of 19.2 Plato wort.

10*0.192= 1.92 kilo of sugar that is entered into the Part B recipe.
 
This may be the coolest wort producing method I've ever heard!  I now have something to study and learn about to see if it will produce something unique and delicious that I can brew.
 
It would be reiterated if i actually reiterated the temps. Have a close look at the temps, some are reiterated and some are not. Rest times are the same though ;)

I really like your suggestion on how to set up 2 recepies. I've been thinking in that direction, something like having the first wort like some kind of extract. But i never came to try it.

What I do instead is just setting up one recipe. Split the malt into 2 halves after having it well mixed. BS then calculates the volume of the sparge water, which i divide by 2. So I sparge two times with the same volume of water (no need to use less water during the first sparge since BM20L can actually handle more than 40 litres of wort).
The first mash will have normal efficiency and the second will have around 75% of normal efficiency since the water is already thick with sugars. So i use a modified equipment profile with lower efficiency for double/reiterated mash. Doing it this way i come very close to the batch volume, OG and FG that BS predicts.

Great that the order of rests is going to be fixed!
I dont really have a problem with this issue, but when recipies are shared people tend to get confused when they se the mash schedule. And since i work with programming it feels natural to report the issue.
 
bhe said:
It would be reiterated if i actually reiterated the temps. Have a close look at the temps, some are reiterated and some are not. Rest times are the same though ;)

OK. However, this is the Ur-reference:
http://byo.com/grains/item/1317-reiterated-mashing-multiple-mashes-for-massive-brews

Again here, but updated:
http://beerandwinejournal.com/reiterated-mashing-1/

I really like your suggestion on how to set up 2 recepies. I've been thinking in that direction, something like having the first wort like some kind of extract. But i never came to try it.

Thank you.

And since i work with programming it feels natural to report the issue.

Naturally!
 
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