Noche Buena clone - dark vienna bock.

[scaryeyes]

I want to brew a clone of the very high quality mexican beer Noche Buena.
Its the best tasting beer I have ever tasted.
I can recommend to byu some if u go to mexico at the end of the year. Its Cuautemoc Moctezuma, that brew this beer only once a year.
Noche Buena is a dark, full-bodied premium brew with a strong, distinctive flavor. I think a wiener type. A lot mor hops flavour than negra modelo, wich is a very good beer too of wiener style.

Anyone that have a similar recipe?

Edit: This is a bock! The line between a vienna and bock with taste from chockolate and caramel malt is very thin.....

[scaryeyes]

Noone who knows? Its sad.....

[scaryeyes]

Well... I started up my first attempt on a so called clone a couple of weeks ago.
Its not a real clone.... yet. When sipfon it from primary after 3 weeks, it taste a lot like some of the flavors are there. Cant say its the real thing. Needs more time on secondary. Colour looks ok. Not as dark as it says her, more like 35, i think. Hard to say when its not clear. Hops, taste and bittering seems ok too.

Now im gonna wait. I have 5 noche buenas, that I brought from mexico this last time. This is a thrill!!!!!


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Noche Buena clone
Brewer: Mange
Asst Brewer:
Style: Traditional Bock
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 10.00 L      
Boil Size: 11.45 L
Estimated OG: 1.070 SG
Estimated Color: 42.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 32.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 89.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
1.50 kg       Wienna (7.0 EBC)                          Grain        55.6 %        
1.00 kg       Pilsner (3.5 EBC)                         Grain        37.0 %        
0.10 kg       Carapale (8.0 EBC)                        Grain        3.7 %        
0.10 kg       Chocolate Malt (carifa i Spec) (1000.0 EBCGrain        3.7 %        
10.00 gm      Northern Brewer [10.50%]  (60 min)        Hops         27.2 IBU      
8.00 gm       Saaz [3.30%]  (20 min)                    Hops         4.1 IBU      
8.00 gm       Saaz [3.30%]  (5 min)                     Hops         1.4 IBU      
0.25 tsp      Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min)             Misc                      
1 Pkgs        Saflager (Fermentis #S-23)                Yeast-Lager                


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 1.20 kg
----------------------------
Name               Description                        Step Temp     Step Time    
Mash In            Add 3.13 L of water at 74.4 C      67.8 C        60 min        
Mash Out           Add 1.75 L of water at 91.5 C      75.6 C        10 min        


Oh... by the way. Mash schedule is not right here

[scaryeyes]

Nope.... Didnt work. Too short of bittering hops. And too dark. Otherwise its damn good. I racked it on bottles and I started another try:


Noche Buena clone second attempt
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 2009-11-26
Style: Traditionel bock Brewer: Mange
Batch Size: 10.00 L Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 11.45 L Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 77.0 % Equipment: My Equipment 10L
Actual Efficiency: 76.7 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.05 kg Weat Meal (0.0 EBC) Adjunct 1.8 %
1.30 kg Wienna (7.0 EBC) Grain 46.3 %
0.90 kg Pilsner (3.5 EBC) Grain 32.0 %
0.20 kg Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC) Grain 7.1 %
0.09 kg Carapale (8.0 EBC) Grain 3.2 %
0.07 kg Chocolate Malt (carifa i Spec) (1000.0 EBC) Grain 2.5 %
11.00 gm Northern Brewer [10.50%] (60 min) Hops 28.8 IBU
10.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (20 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
8.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (5 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
0.25 ml Protafloc (Boil 20.0 min) Misc 
0.25 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
0.20 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 7.1 %
1 Pkgs Saflager (Fermentis #S-23) Yeast-Lager 

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.065 SG (1.066-1.074 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.065 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.019 SG (1.018-1.024 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Color: 35.9 EBC (30.0-60.0 EBC) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 35.0 IBU (20.0-30.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 2.0 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 6.1 % (6.3-7.5 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 6.5 %
Actual Calories: 619 cal/l


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Light Body Mash Tun Weight: 0.00 kg
Mash Grain Weight: 1.31 kg Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 22.2 C Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C
Sparge Water: 7.16 L Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 3.42 L of water at 71.9 C 65.6 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 2.19 L of water at 93.5 C 75.6 C 10 min


Mash Notes
Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage Carbonation Type: Corn Sugar Carbonation Volumes: 2.4 (2.2-2.7 vols)
Estimated Priming Weight: 56.7 gm Temperature at Bottling: 15.6 C
Primer Used: - Age for: 4.0 Weeks
Storage Temperature: 11.1 C


 

[BILLY BREW]

try throwing 1/2lb or roasted unmalted barley in the batch. That will give you the earth tones you may be missing

[scaryeyes]

Oh.... Can be useful to know! In other beers too I think? Ill try that in my next batch!

[altgeeky1]

I want to brew a clone of the very high quality mexican beer Noche Buena...

This clone recipe is available in the book "Beer Captured".

I'm at work so I can't look it up and offer any hints to your current recipe, and I can't reprint the recipe due to copyright, unfortunately. 
I will say that my book is well-worn and beat up... it is one of my favorite recipe books - right up there with Brewing Classic Styles in it's usefulness.  Hope this is a little helpful..

I have a Vienna Lager fermenting now (my first true lager), from the BCS book..
I may recycle the yeast cake for a Noche Buena clone (I've an abundance of Vienna malt at the moment..)

[scaryeyes]

Oh.... Im gonna search for that book.... I think I cant find it here (sweden), so I have to search the net and hope to find it! Please brew a clone of that beer and if you want, give me a recention? (I dont know the word for that... Taste, looks and smell)
Its the best tasting beer I have ever tasted. Modelos Negra Modelo is not even close, though its the second best I think....

[scaryeyes]

So.... Now we have come this far on a swedish forum, that we have started a thread just about this beer. A lot of people have been intrested in brewing it. Unfortunatly its impossible to buy in sweden, but me and 2 more guys have tasted it.

We all are gonna brew a lot of baches now an when we have found the closest, Im gonna post it here.

The recipe in the book is not too accurate, I been told in this matter. But in my next try, im gonna use polenta and flaked rice.

 In 2 weeks, Im gonna visit Cuauhtemoc Moctezuma, the brewery in mexico, that brew that beer.

[Remixen]

Thanks for you information i newly join and so nice post I agree with you. Your complement is so informative ....

[rcole1958]

Papazian, in his 3rd edition of The Complete Joyof Homebrewing, provides the following extract recipe for the version of Noche Buena they used to make back when it was at it's best. Here it is:

6.6 lbs dark LME
1 lb rice extract
1 lb light crystal malt - 30 minute steep
.25 lb toasted malt barley - 30 minute steep
1.25 oz German spalt hop - 60 minute boil
1 oz Saaz hops - 15 minute boil
1 oz Hallertauer hops - 5 minute boil
German lager yeast



Og: 1.056-1.060
Fg: 1.014-1.018

Ferment two weeks and then bottle
Or
Ferment and rack to carboy for 3 week cold layering



 

[scaryeyes]

Thanks! Interesting.... Really! I have been working a lot and just now moved to a house. Im gonna start brewing again very soon. And we have some different recipies here in sweden on our forum. Im gonna post some of those very soon. i think at least 2 of the brewers have tasted their beer now. With good result.... unfortunatly, they didnt taste the real thing....... But they said it was the greatest lager they had brewed.

[scaryeyes]

Well. Old thread. But im still determend to brew a clone that taste almost exactly like the real. When i get home i can provide one recipe of the number 2 beer of dark bocks from mexico. Modelos premium lager. Negra modelo. This one is more malty and much less hoppy but a damn fine creamy bock beer. A fellow on the forum just cloned that one.

[scaryeyes]

If anyones interested, heres something between Noche Buena and Negra Modelo.
I would change celeia for bobek straight off in my next batch. And raise my effeciency up to 70, cause of my new brewmachine. That would make a 6% beer and I think it would be closer to what Im lookin for.
I used rice flower and corn flower and just boiled it for half an hour, then mashed it with the pilsner malt on the side for an hour at 70 degrees celcius.
Very fine beer anyway.


Boil Size: 38.48 l
Post Boil Volume: 38.48 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 35.00 l
Bottling Volume: 33.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 34.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 63.4 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.70 kg Viking Münchermalt (18.0 EBC) Grain 2 47.0 %
3.40 kg Viking Viennamalt (7.0 EBC) Grain 3 34.0 %
0.10 kg Viking Crystal 300 (300.0 EBC) Grain 7 1.0 %
0.20 kg Chokladmalt (Castle Malting) (900.0 EBC) Grain 6 2.0 %
165.00 g Celeia [3.70 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 29.8 IBUs
1.6 pkg Mexican Lager (White Labs #WLP940) [35.4 Yeast 9 -
0.40 kg Rice, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 5 4.0 %
0.70 kg maize (2.0 EBC) Adjunct 1 7.0 %
0.50 kg Viking Pilsner Malt (3.7 EBC) Grain 4 5.0 %


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 10.00 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Rest Add 25.64 l of water at 55.7 C 50.0 C 30 min
Saccharification Heat to 66.7 C over 15 min 66.7 C 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C 10 min

Sparge: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 1 steps (22.85l) of 75.6 C water
Notes:
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