Author Topic: Yeast Starter Question  (Read 7512 times)

Offline aa7yy

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Yeast Starter Question
« on: January 17, 2013, 10:36:55 AM »
Two days ago I started a starter for 11 gallons of 1.052. From the Design Window I clicked on Starter. Need 396.5 billion cells. Change Starter size to 3 liter. Check stir plate, shows it will make 494.7 billion cells. I go buy the yeast, wlp 002, and check date. Looks like "born on" will be about November 28th. Enter the Package Date, go back and check, looks like 3 liters will still do it.

From another forum I see a reference to YeastCalc. I go check it out, my starter, on the stir plate, will not work. Decide to go check Mr Malty. Starter will not work. Go back to Beer Smith to "double check". Seems viability does not change with Package Date. Is this a "bug" or did I do something wrong. Really like the ideal of doing everything from one program. 96% viability my starter is good. 62% it sucks.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2013, 07:55:28 PM »
BeerSmith uses a viability formula different from most other calcs.  Most assume the package is dead and useless after either 5 or 6 months, so they assume a forced "zero" at that terminal date.   I think most then gradually degrade the viability to reach zero cells at the package expiration date. 

BeerSmith uses a more "laboratory-like" formula and degrades by a fixed 20% of the existing count each month.  That method takes about 11 months to reach zero. 

This makes BeerSmith more generous on the initial cell count in the first 5 months than most other calcs, so more starters will meet the hurdle needed using the BeerSmith math. 

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 08:27:37 PM »
Doesn't matter, Beersmith made NO change in viability. Two months old, no change.

Offline MaltLicker

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 08:37:26 PM »
Might be something buggy with your install?  I just tested today, -30 and -60 and got 96%, 75% and 59% roughly. 

On Mr. Malty, I got 96%, 75% and 54%, showing that difference at 60 days that I mentioned. 

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2013, 09:05:04 PM »
Ok, I'll see if I can uninstall and ,,,, geeze, that sucks.

Once again, from the Design tab, with recipe. Starter tab, double click yeast and alter date. You get a change ?

Thanks, I'll look some more.

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2013, 09:23:34 PM »
Ok, went back through this. Everything the same as on the first post. Checked some other recipes. Updated correctly. Most had 96% viability @ 2 months. This recipe, walked it backwards, never changed from 96%.

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 12:58:09 PM »
Re installed, keep playing with it. On this one recipe that I am working on. Click on Starter, Left hand corner. First entry,  "Yeast Cells Needed" 396.5 Billion. Field under it, "Yeast Cell Without Starter"  0.0 Billion. Every other recipe I have has some entry in "Yeast Cells Without Starter".

No mater what date I put into "Package Date", Viability remains 96% , "Yeast Cells Without Starter", remains 0.0 Billion.

Just finished the above. Now, removed the yeast from the design tab. Added the same Yeast back and moved to the Starter tab. Viability remains 96%, BUT "Yeast Cells Without Starter" has changed to 96.0 Billion.

Offline ihikeut

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 05:38:38 PM »
Check in Options tab, Yeast starter, and see if anything has changed. Mind reads aging rate at 21% per month.

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 06:06:41 PM »
Thanks for another thought. (been there before)

My steps
1)Open beer smith
2) No folders or recipes chosen
3) Select Tools, Yeast Starter
4) It comes up with the last recipe I worked on
   Production Date 11/28/12   The box under, Yeast Viability,,, dim, not highlighted, shows 64.3
5) Select Yeast Starter Settings at bottom
6) Liquid Age Rate 21% Per Month

Ok, Close, back to My Recipes, the recipe I am working on.
7) Click Starter, Window opens, Packaging Date, 11/28/12  , Viability 96%

So, the 64.3 is not making it to my recipe  ,,,,,,

Offline ihikeut

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 07:09:47 PM »
I don't know if glitch in your program of beer smith. I'm running mine on a desktop PC.

I just try the same thing you did, their is difference of 4% viability between tools, starter and design starter. In the design starter if I double click on the yeast I am using,  changing the date changes the viability rate. I try changing all of the other numbers but the only thing that change the viability rate was the date.

Offline ihikeut

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 06:51:03 AM »
I rarely use Beer Smiths stater calculator. It's pretty much a one step calculator, when I brew lager it takes about 800 billion yeast cells for my batch. Searching the Web and using Mr Malty, Wyeast and other, I found yeastcalc to be the best for multi-step starers.

http://www.yeastcalc.com/index.html

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2013, 07:25:17 AM »
I rarely use Beer Smiths stater calculator. It's pretty much a one step calculator, when I brew lager it takes about 800 billion yeast cells for my batch. Searching the Web and using Mr Malty, Wyeast and other, I found yeastcalc to be the best for multi-step starers.

http://www.yeastcalc.com/index.html

Yes, that is pretty much where I am at. This has just been a "project". Real easy to ignore and move on. Tried to figure it out for the challenge. I used yeastcalc to clean up the error generated by Beersmith. I am curious to hear if I am the only one in the world that is getting 96% viability  and two months old, sometimes.

Offline tom_hampton

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Re: Yeast Starter Question
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2013, 07:48:24 AM »
I rarely use Beer Smiths stater calculator. It's pretty much a one step calculator, when I brew lager it takes about 800 billion yeast cells for my batch. Searching the Web and using Mr Malty, Wyeast and other, I found yeastcalc to be the best for multi-step starers.

http://www.yeastcalc.com/index.html

+1

There are several problems with the test starter tool. I've enumerated them in previous posts. But, Brad has "not responded"  to them, much like he has not responded here. Consequently, Iuse yeastcalc .   

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